Jenny (00:29)
I'm chatting with Gregory Witcher from understory farm in Vermont today, all about wholesale and grocery outlets, which he has found a lot of success with. We're also talking about post-harvest costs, systems, processes, and a few other things along the way as well. And I really love this conversation because I know so many flower farmers tend to lean towards direct to consumer sales outlets, like weddings or farmers markets, but
I don't think the outlets like wholesale and groceries should necessarily be dismissed. And Greg talks us through a lot of cases why, And he really dives deep into some of the things he pays attention to in order to find success with those outlets. So a little bit about Gregory, he stumbled into farming when he was 19 and hasn't stopped since.
He's now 13 years into the growth of Understory Farm and is constantly trying to find new ways to build efficiency, apply creativity, and feel inspired by flowers, farming, and his relationship with the land. And I really admire Greg and his outlook on farming and business a lot. And so I can't wait for you to hear what he has to say. So without further ado, let's go.
Jenny (01:44)
Greg, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to talk to you today. I'm actually pumped to have you on today because I saw you at Flowering the North at the conference last winter, and you gave a presentation on post-harvest. I think it was on post-harvest. And I just remember loving it because most of the
Gregory Witscher (02:00)
Mm-hmm.
Jenny (02:05)
presentations at most of those kinds of conferences. feel like I don't, I'm not usually like super impressed by or don't really love them, but I was like immediately interested in what you were talking about. And you had kind of a heavy focus on like the numbers. That might be why, but ⁓ you have such an intellectual way of looking at flower business. And ⁓ I was just really excited about it. So thank you for coming on the show today to chat with me.
Gregory Witscher (02:12)
you
Yeah, thanks for having me, Jenny. Appreciate it. I also saw you present at that conference in Maine and was extremely impressed. And ⁓ yeah, I'm happy to be here.
Jenny (02:44)
thank you. So for those that don't know you, can you just give us a brief introduction of you, your farm, and what you do, like your sales outlets, that kind of thing?
Gregory Witscher (02:54)
Yeah, sure. So I have understory farm, which is in Bridport, Vermont, which is like the Champlain Valley of Vermont. So the Western side, kind of the banana belt out here. And this will be my 13th year with the farm. And I'm growing on about five acres of field production, some of which is cover cropped.
and six greenhouses, four of which are heated, about an acre, acre and a half of perennials. ⁓ And currently own 73 acres, but I'm only actually farming that amount of land and then leasing out the fields to an organic dairy farm right now. ⁓ And my primary sales outlets are wholesale,
grocery stores in CSA with like a small percentage to restaurants. The breakdown specifically is like about 50 % of our flowers go out to wholesale. About 35 % to grocery stores and 10 % to CSA with just a little bit to restaurants. And my crew size is about four to 4.5 full-time equivalents.
depending on the year. And that shifts a little bit seasonally, but in general, that's where we're at right now. And shoot for like around 200 to $240,000 gross sales. And that too changes year to year depending on, know, crop failures and all the things that come with farming.
Jenny (04:49)
all the things.
Gregory Witscher (04:51)
Yeah.
Yeah. So that's kind like a general breakdown of, yeah, my farm.
Jenny (04:59)
I, that was very informative and concise, so thank you. I wanted to say that your crew size is, sounds to me like pretty lean for the amount that you're growing and pumping out. And I'm curious if you could tell me a little bit more about that.
Gregory Witscher (05:03)
Yes.
Yeah, I think you're right. It's probably, I think I get that a lot. Like it is a lean crew and it doesn't necessarily mean that we're like the most hyper efficient farm in the world because we're not. And I don't like consider myself an especially like great business person, but I try to build efficiencies every year a little bit at a time and ⁓ have really decent systems.
Jenny (05:21)
Hahaha
I love it.
Gregory Witscher (05:47)
I don't think they're amazing, but they're decent. And I don't know, we'll probably talk more about production stuff and just efficiency stuff. But ⁓ in general, flower production side of things is pretty hyper efficient. So we have four tractors. We have a lot of equipment. ⁓ And really dialed in systems with how we're producing things. ⁓ And so yeah.
It's pretty efficient, it's also like, I don't know, I work long days, long weeks, probably too long. And yeah, I don't know if there's like a magic bullet or if there's like a special thing we're doing, but it is a pretty lean crew. And, but it's also like a really good crew. And I feel like it's, I try to be really intentional about the people that are working here.
and having the right people with the right skill set. ⁓ I think we're able to get a lot of shit done because of it.
Jenny (06:54)
I love that. how do you, I think this is an area that so many people struggle with is not feeling like they can find the right people for those right roles or not retaining people. Do you have anything to say about that?
Gregory Witscher (07:12)
Yeah, I mean, that's a challenge. I don't... Like every year there's always different people coming in. And this year we've got about three people, no, four people who've come back. ⁓ And that really helps, retention helps. But I think I end up feeling like I have a lot of responsibility with trying to...
choose the right people who are very capable of learning things and very eager to learn things and care a lot. And I feel like that's what ultimately matters even ahead of somebody showing up with five years of farming experience. If somebody cares a lot and they want to learn and they are a good communicator and can receive and give feedback, you can get a lot done with somebody like that.
Jenny (07:41)
Mm-hmm.
Gregory Witscher (08:05)
And you can also have a really good time. So I think I'm trying to get better every year at finding those people and being more discerning. ⁓ And yeah, does that answer the original question? I kind of started drifting a little bit.
Jenny (08:22)
Yeah,
no, it does. And I 100 % agree with you. I feel like the best people we've ever had on our crew have just been people who are really excited to learn. They want to learn. don't, actually none of them that have been the best have had a farming experience, which is so fun and interesting. And I think it's great that you can make that work. So I want to come back to your sales outlets because I love the...
Gregory Witscher (08:41)
Mm-hmm.
Jenny (08:52)
I love having you on the show because there's so many flower farmers that really want to sell like direct to consumer. They want to do, which you do with your CSA for sure. But a lot of people would just want to do, you know, weddings or, you know, farm stands or CSA. But you can absolutely have a successful, profitable farm selling through other sales outlets, like wholesale and groceries. So when you say that 50 % of your
Revenue is from wholesale. you mean you're selling direct to florists or you're selling to a wholesaler? Both. Okay. Interesting.
Gregory Witscher (09:25)
Both. Yeah.
So we're selling, we have like a florist root ⁓ that goes out every Tuesday. And we also sell to the wholesaler who's like the main wholesaler in the state, ⁓ which is its own interesting relationship and has its own complicated nuances, like working with an actual wholesaler.
And the fact that we're selling a product that goes to them, that then goes to florists within the state. And it touches more hands and has different challenges and nuances. But yes, that 50 % refers to both florists. I think of florists as brick and mortar florists. And I think of floral designers as people who working at their houses or their garages or a studio and then the wholesaler. So all of the above. ⁓
is that majority of our sales basically to all those folks.
Jenny (10:27)
Mm-hmm.
So about 85 % of all your sales are either going wholesale or grocery, which is the majority of your business, obviously. So what are the main reasons you decided to focus on those sales outlets? Did you always focus on them for the whole 13 years or did you try a bunch of things, come to this, or have you always done it?
Gregory Witscher (10:52)
No. ⁓ Yeah, like when Jesse and I originally started this business, we just like threw everything at the wall. We were just like, let's try everything. And at that point we tried flowers and vegetables and ⁓ had off farm jobs, livestock, like dudes did everything and worked a million hours a week. ⁓ And we narrowed it down to growing flowers. And then we kind of
focused on the low hanging fruit, I think is really common, like farmers markets, farm stand. And then started like dipping our toe in like florists, just like dropping off at one shop at a time. And then like eventually like reach out, I reached out to like a couple of the grocery stores and it kind of just was a slow evolution to like tap into all those markets. And over time we kind of
based our decisions on like where we wanted to spend our energy. Cause at some point you can't be everywhere all at once. You can't be like at a farmer's market and also at a farm stand and also preparing for Monday harvests for all your wholesale orders. Like, I mean, people do it and we did it and it's like, you can, but it's not fun. It's kind of miserable. ⁓ So I mean, the goal for me is always to try to like have more time.
to do fun things or be with family or be with friends. And that's kind of a long-term goal every year. So ⁓ the evolution of choosing markets has always kind of been based on that, how to create more space for just personal well-being and connection and less time working and hustling nonstop. So those decisions were kind of based on that and how
I arrive now at these few markets is really based on what works for me personally and my own personal needs. And also like finding the right markets that work within like a weekly workflow. Because, ⁓ like for example, like I don't feel like I could ever just be like a wholesale flower farm and just sell to wholesale markets because cut flowers, they need to be cut.
You know, they need to be cut like not only on Mondays for all those wholesale deliveries on Tuesdays, but they're also need to be cut like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like Sunday. They have to be cut. so trying to find the right markets that fill those gaps and ⁓ meet those needs throughout the week so that fields and beds can be productive and ⁓ also work with like the crew size and when people are showing up to work.
and ⁓ having it be kind of like a good workflow generally and good productivity flow for whatever crops we're producing at any given time in the season, if that makes sense.
Jenny (13:54)
Yeah, a hundred percent. I think that's something I end up talking to flower farmers about a lot who come through our program is to like really just like look at your weekly workflow and either take things out that, you know, like you said, you can do everything, but it sucks. Take things out that aren't like really working for you that well, or you don't want to do anymore. And try to set your week up in a way that makes sense for everything you said, like your crew size, your
your work schedule for think time that you need to take off or harvesting and just whatever moving product all throughout the week. So it's cool to hear you talk about that in that way. And it's interesting to see like the mix of sales outlets that you've settled on. I think that wholesale and grocery kind of get
Like they're not as popular sales outlets for like a lot of like newer flower farmers, but I don't think that they should be dismissed. Why do you think someone else might choose to focus on those sales outlets?
Gregory Witscher (14:56)
Hmm.
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of farmers out there or a lot of people who are in this line of work who maybe aren't extroverts, you know, like maybe don't want to stand at a farmer's market and like talk to people all day. And like, just communicating via email or phone call with some grocery stores sometimes could be the way to go.
Jenny (15:09)
Yeah.
Gregory Witscher (15:26)
Like for example, like the grocery stores for me are kind of the lowest communication involvement. So I have like kind of different markets rated at different level of communication. And, you know, I think like farmer's market would be on the high end, a lot of communication, a lot of like directs conversation. And
Jenny (15:32)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Gregory Witscher (15:52)
Grocery stores would be kind of on the other end of the spectrum. I send one email per week and it takes me like two minutes. And then I get the orders in, you know, and I can like take that and run with it. ⁓ So somebody who's like less extroverted, maybe it makes sense. ⁓ Or somebody who's like not into doing the floral design stuff. Like I know, like we've done weddings for years and I think the profit margins can be pretty good for weddings and I understand the appeal. ⁓
And I think it works for a lot of people. It's probably really smart because you can produce a lot of, or you can produce like on a small amount of land and space as you have pricing and done. And most of us have and be able to net a pretty good income. ⁓ And I think what we're doing does require a little more land, a little more like higher volume productivity ⁓ of the crops we're growing. ⁓
Jenny (16:38)
Mm-hmm.
Gregory Witscher (16:52)
So somebody who's interested probably in more of that, like growing, wants to spend time actually out there on a tractor or cutting flowers and working with a crew, I think this outlet does potentially make more sense. And in some ways, it also doesn't. If producing a lot of something is not your jam or if like, ⁓
just growing large volumes of flowers and also having exponentially larger losses of things too. Everything is kind of scaled up and when it's good, it's good, and when it's bad, it's bad. And that's not for everyone too, if that makes sense.
Jenny (17:33)
Hmm.
Yeah, a hundred percent. so I, you know, I know a lot of people like when I've been at, I've been to flower conferences and stuff and I've heard people say like, well, you know, I, I want to sell direct to consumer or something because like, I want to get the most amount of money, but then there's like, like you said, all this communication that goes into getting it. That's why it costs more money. so
Gregory Witscher (17:39)
Yeah.
Jenny (18:04)
A lot of times I think there's this assumption that like doing wholesale or doing grocery is not necessarily profitable, but that's definitely not the case. And I think that you can make anything profitable. You can make anything work as long as you have the right systems in place, you have the right processes and like you understand how to make it work. So can you just tell us a little bit about some of your like processes and your systems that you use to keep things profitable? know earlier you said, I'm not
Gregory Witscher (18:06)
.
Jenny (18:32)
a great business person and our systems are just okay, but like I would completely disagree hearing some of your systems in the past. It sounds like you really have an eye for it.
Gregory Witscher (18:44)
⁓ Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I have an eye for it or anything. just like, ⁓ yeah, I don't know. I just try really hard to. That's all. But ⁓ yeah, like in terms of like some of our systems and I think I don't disagree with people when they say like grocery stores and wholesale can be ⁓ not lucrative.
Jenny (18:47)
Hahaha
Gregory Witscher (19:13)
Like it can be like the profit margins are narrower. I think that's a given. think that's like, okay, to acknowledge, like, you're not going to expect to sell a bouquet at like a grocery store, like 50 bouquets at a time or $20 a bouquet. You just don't. And I think like, there's a lot of folks who show up with that expectation. They're like, they come to the same grocery stores that we sell to every year. And they're like,
Jenny (19:17)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Gregory Witscher (19:42)
my God, like you're only paying well, $13, $14 a bouquet wholesale to the buyers. And they're like, yeah, that's like, cause we can only market up this much and then the shrinkage is this much. like, I feel like, um, the expectation is like the profit margins are slimmer. And I think that's how every business is, you know, every kind of business, whether you're in farming or here in like whatever, um, manufacturing.
Jenny (20:06)
Yes.
Gregory Witscher (20:11)
It's like, you know, you start wholesaling something, your profit margins are smaller and you have to produce more. so, yeah. ⁓ And so because we are like trying to, I don't think we're like a ginormous farm. I think we're still a pretty small farm, but we try to produce like this week. ⁓ Today we put out whatever 250 bouquets to the stores up in Burlington.
Jenny (20:18)
Yeah, move more volume.
Gregory Witscher (20:40)
And we try to shoot for those numbers between like 203 to jabouk's to those stores on that day. And the systems are very specific to make that happen. Um, which is I get those orders Monday morning. Like I send an email out to the stores, like the same time every Monday and they know when to expect it. And I try to have like that consistency with all my markets and they get those orders into me, like within the hour.
I come up with those numbers of how many bouquets we need to make. I write out a recipe and I translate those into harvest lists. And so on Tuesday, once everyone's done harvesting, and I'm talking specifically about grocery stores, when everyone's done harvesting on Monday for all the Tuesday wholesale orders, everyone has their harvest list on Tuesday with specific numbers of each flower that they're going to get that's going to turn into a certain number of bouquets.
And it's really important. I was talking to Cindy about this yesterday, who makes the bouquets that the flowers really have to be cut very specifically for bouquets. Kind of starts with like how they're cut, how things are harvested. And because when somebody's making bouquets, they need to be able to just go down the line and put each stem into that bouquet at the specific recipe that I create.
And it can be done very efficiently that way. ⁓ And no wonky stems. I don't know, some things we just won't be using bouquets that are just too hard to use or too perishable. ⁓ And yeah, so I think just over time coming up with those systems that are very standardized, I guess. ⁓
Jenny (22:13)
No wonky stems.
Gregory Witscher (22:34)
Like we try to have like case counts for all of our grocery store bouquets and like the stores aren't getting like six bunches to a bucket or four bunches to a bucket. It's like, no, everything's five bunches to a bucket. Cases are 10 bouquets, two buckets. Like just trying to have some systems in place that are consistent that we can rely on and everyone can expect both as like the farmer and also as the buyer are things that help with efficiency.
that being said, like, sometimes it just sucks. Sometimes like I put zinnias on the recipe and like they all get cut and then they come in and I'm like, fuck, these zinnias look horrible. And then we have to, and then you have to pivot, you know? And it's just like, I think it's like, there's always the goal. Like we always like, here's our goal. Here's the expectation. Here's our standard operating procedure. And then also let's be flexible and need to pivot when things happen because this is farming mentality.
Jenny (23:31)
You
have to have that. You have to. Yeah. So what do you make a recipe? Like, do you have? What am I trying to ask?
Gregory Witscher (23:34)
Yeah, yeah.
Jenny (23:44)
When you're doing like your crop planning, do you have an idea of like what your recipe is going to be like by like the month or season or week, or do you just like see what's ready that week and make your recipes? Like did the grocery stores like care what ingredients are in there or do they just like want it, you know, to look a certain way?
Gregory Witscher (24:03)
They don't care very specifically about what's in there. No. And that's another benefit of grocery stores is in determining those markets of who we're selling to, we have the category which is not flexible markets, the floral designer. Very specific thing they want. And then we're going to balance our week out.
with a little sprinkle of grocery stores and CSA that is like whatever we got left, you know? And so like kind of like jumping back to like choosing markets and figuring out like who to grow for and who not to grow for. It's like finding those markets that balance each other out in terms of like specificity that they require. I think for cut flowers is really important. But ⁓ in terms of like coming back to like the grocery stores and what they specifically want, ⁓
It's really interesting. I just recently had a conversation with a bunch of the buyers at some of the stores because I noticed their buy their orders were like down. They were like dipping down. And, ⁓ I'm, I try to be good about just like getting on the phone and just like talking to somebody and just being like, Hey, like just noticing, like your guys orders were down from last week. anything that I should know about, like what's happening. And,
Ended up getting like some great feedback about just like, yeah, we're just like noticing people just do not want like more Lizzy Anthus in bouquets. And like those just aren't selling. And like, I was just like, we grew a fuck ton Lizzy Anthus. So I was like, Lizzy Anthus, Lizzy Anthus, Lizzy Anthus. And then without like, if I, if I don't take the time to like get on the phone and like try to get some feedback from these people, then I probably would have just kept doing it and their order would have just kept going down.
Jenny (25:36)
Yeah
Gregory Witscher (25:58)
⁓ but that was just like immediately like, ⁓ okay. Check. Stop putting Lizzy Anthus in those bouquets. Like people are totally fine at this store, whatever store that was, like with just like more fricking, binary giant zinnias. Like they're happy. They're pumped. And you know, you know, and I'm just like, okay, like we could do that. We've got a million of those. and so yes, they're not.
Jenny (26:16)
Great.
Gregory Witscher (26:27)
super specific about what they want, but also their customers are. And it takes like, it's not like a farmer's market where you get that feedback directly. It's like, it takes multiple steps to get that feedback. And then I have to start making those changes and then need to be kind of on it and like aware and not just like aloof, ⁓ which is hard sometimes.
Jenny (26:35)
Mm.
Yeah, I think that might be one of the hardest things for business owners is like, you're so caught up in all, just all the things that need to be done all the time. If your sales are starting to dip down, you might, they might not do what you did was call and be like, Hey, like, give me some feedback. They might just keep on going. And then, you know, before you know it, things are like totally dropped off, but I love that you're proactive like that and are able to get that feedback and
do something about it.
Gregory Witscher (27:24)
Yeah,
think it's like so, I think it's really important. I feel like with like the wholesale and the grocery store, like which are both these wholesale markets, when you don't have a direct face to face interaction with your bride, your CSA customer, or your farmers market customer, your farm stand people, you're one step, two steps removed sometimes from the feedback.
And it's, I feel like I'm learning that like really hard this year on like that slow kind of feedback, path back to me and like trying to get ahead of it when I'm like noticing things or like intuiting things. ⁓ instead of just getting like a couple of weeks ago, I just got these like random texts of like cafe au lait's that were like melted down. And I'm just like, what is this? Like what's going on?
Jenny (28:01)
Mm.
Gregory Witscher (28:17)
And it's just like a buyer who is just like, oh, these cafes are like totally dead. I'm like, okay, I'm so sorry. Like, what do we got to do about this? And like, just takes, I don't know. It's just like being one step removed as a grower when you're selling to wholesale markets can be complicated in that way with the communication, line of communication, but also like it's possible to...
Jenny (28:37)
Hmm.
Gregory Witscher (28:44)
make it happen, but it does make that communication happen. But it does take some extra effort to be more just more adamant about getting the information that you need.
Jenny (28:55)
Yeah. Well, I love that. And I think that this is all really great conversation for anybody who is doing wholesale or grocery or wants to do it is to really stay ahead of it and really just pay attention at all times. Like what's going on, pay attention. Right. ⁓ so I kind of wanted to switch our topics here because something that I mentioned earlier, I heard you talk about diving deep into some of your costs with selling.
Gregory Witscher (29:07)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Jenny (29:23)
to some of these sales outlets and specifically your post-harvest costs. And something I'm always trying to drive home to people is like, growing flowers costs money. Harvesting flowers costs money. Selling flowers costs money. you know, if any of those stages, you're not really like paying attention or, um,
Gregory Witscher (29:39)
Yeah.
Jenny (29:45)
to use your term being aloof about things. It can really cost you in the long run. And I feel like you're somebody that has a really good handle on some of those post-harvest costs. Can you share some of the things that you've learned over the years of just gathering that data and analyzing it?
Gregory Witscher (30:03)
Yeah. I think like just one number that comes to mind is, I showed this at that conference last winter was like when I break down kind of all of our post-harvest handling expenses for 2024. I think that was, yeah. It was like around $17,000 for
everything from our sleeves and rubber bands, buckets, and deliveries, packing orders, ⁓ bouquet making. ⁓ So the majority of that is labor. It is like getting those flowers from point A to point B. ⁓ But the other expenses, like even our sleeves, for example, and
That's a real expense for everyone and ⁓ it all adds up and it all affects our bottom line. And I think I'm trying to constantly try to find efficiencies in post-harvest handling. ⁓ A couple of things this year, I usually pack all of our wholesale orders myself on Mondays for Tuesday deliveries.
This year, I have one of my employees I've been training to do that. And that's been really interesting to see. ⁓ Like at first I was reluctant because I was like, I don't know if somebody could do this. Cause you have to be really specific about it. Cause you got to know that Britta, you know, up the road really likes her whatever her bright celoge or something. And she likes it to be the specific way. And it's helpful to know those nuances with customers to make them happy. And
but I have this really great employee, right now. And he's just like one of those people who I am aware of is like very attentive to people and what they need. he started doing those Tuesday deliveries. So I wanted him to like pack the orders to do them. And ⁓ just having him like help me pack the orders this year, it's like, ⁓ it's oddly so much, well, it should be faster because you have two people.
But it's even faster than I could have imagined because I'm not just in there trying to also shoot off some emails and text messages and do all these random things and pack orders at the same time. I have an employee with me and we're just focused on getting the orders packed. And it creates this focus time and it's just made it so much more efficient and also more pleasant. ⁓ And then also another post-harvest thing that I've
I'm experimenting with this here, and I think it's going okay, is I switched from, and I don't know what kind of sleeves and how you do your wraps and stuff, but ⁓ we used to use the sheets, like the whatever 18 by 24 sheets, piles of craft paper. And I think I wrote out what those, I think those were like 12 cents each. I don't know what other people are paying, but they were like 12 cents each per sleeve.
Jenny (33:15)
Sounds about right.
Gregory Witscher (33:16)
Yeah. And then we would sticker. So we'd like wrap everything sticker. And I thought it was like pretty cost effective. The sticker was 10 cents. So was like 22 cents per sleeve. And then this winter, I was like looking around at other options to just like eliminate the sticker because the stickers kept going up in price. And, um, and I ended up like finding, um, a company that would just print a custom sleeve, like with like a whole beautiful, our like custom logo.
custom the whole sheet and like, ⁓ and then we would just like wrap, staple, you know, and cut out the sticker completely. And the whole thing, like we had to order a 25,000 sleeves, which is a lot of sleeves, but it made it, they were still like with shipping everything like 25 cents. So it's like, I don't know, what is that? Like three cents more and also saves the step of adding the sticker when you're making like thousands of bouquets a year, you know, it's like a pretty.
I think it's going to be, haven't done the numbers yet, because it's the first year we're switching over to those custom sleeves, but I'm excited about it. Plus it like makes our bouquets stand out because not a lot of people are doing like a whole custom sleeve. People do like a tissue paper within the sleeve type thing or a stamp, but that'll be, that's kind of interesting and fun. So I guess just like trying to find those little things to like build efficiencies every year.
Jenny (34:41)
Yeah, you'll have to share that company with me because I at one point was really looking for a company to make custom sleeves for us. Cause I was like, I do not want to deal with these damn stickers anymore. ⁓
Like it's a great thing for like our employees do it on like a super rainy day where it's like thundering and lightning or like over the winter time and stuff. But it's just like one of those things that like is not in my mind, it's like not necessary. There's another step like to get around it, but all the quotes I was getting from places were insane. And this was like a few years ago, the last time I looked into it. So, ⁓ you have to share that with me later, but
Gregory Witscher (35:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's, know it's, it is this like one extra step. Yeah. To like cut out. That's not fully necessary.
Jenny (35:26)
Yeah, exactly. And I want to come back briefly to what you were saying that you were having one of your team members, Luke, helping you with packing the truck and it's insane. Rebecca, who's my full-time girl. And I always say all the time when you're working with two people together, it goes as fast as three. It's just insane. if you're like, for example, like
Gregory Witscher (35:45)
Yeah.
Jenny (35:49)
transplanting a whole bed of something by yourself and then one other person comes with you, you literally go like three times as fast. The math doesn't math. It doesn't make sense, but it's really important to have that teamwork, I feel like.
Gregory Witscher (35:58)
Yeah.
Yeah,
what do you think that is? Do you think that's just like enjoyment factor kind of goes up too? So yeah.
Jenny (36:09)
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Yeah, because it's kind of drudgery if you're doing something like, yeah, if you're transplanting by yourself and you just see this 100 foot row or 300 foot row ahead of you and you're like, ⁓ But then, I don't know, we're also, I feel like playfully competitive too. See who can transplant faster, get more plugs in the ground. ⁓
Gregory Witscher (36:30)
Mm. Mm.
Jenny (36:36)
Not like gamifying it, but like, I don't know. It's like kind of a fun little thing to see like who can go faster.
Gregory Witscher (36:43)
Yeah, yeah. You guys are a competitive bunch over there.
Jenny (36:45)
Yeah.
I mean, I wouldn't say all of us are like, I am.
I'm always like one year. I, I probably shouldn't have done this, but I am competitive. So I told my team that, um, I was like, anybody who can like harvest faster than me this year, you know, I'll, um, I forgot, I was like, I'll give you $500 or something like that. I don't even remember what it was. And of course nobody did, but I took everybody out to dinner and it was kind of like this. It was like a fun thing to just be like, well, you guys did amazing. And, um,
Gregory Witscher (37:14)
Yeah.
Jenny (37:19)
Now I probably would do that a lot differently than I did back then, but.
Gregory Witscher (37:23)
Yeah, you'd make it a thousand dollars.
Jenny (37:26)
Yeah. Yeah. And
probably now people can harvest fast. think Rebecca can definitely harvest faster than me now because I, I don't do it as much as she does anymore. So yeah, I'm going to have to be careful if I do that again. No, but yeah, I think it's smart to just look at little things like that. Like you were saying with, um, looking at ways to drive down your costs, like with those sheets and, and how you do all that stuff now.
Gregory Witscher (37:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓
Jenny (37:55)
I have done experiments before with the the pre-made ⁓ sleeves versus just the sheets. And for us, we've found that it's faster for us to use the pre-made ones. I'm curious if you've ever tried the pre-made ones before and you've seen a difference.
Gregory Witscher (37:58)
Hmm.
And then.
Yeah, I have tried the pre-mates ones before. It was probably like five years or more ago. And I think the thing that came up was just like having different size bouquets at different times of the year. Like whether that was like shorter things, if it was like ranunculus bunches fitting in the same bouquet as like something in the fall, like Dali Bunches or something. But I don't know. Like I'm sure it probably makes a lot more sense and is faster.
Jenny (38:27)
Hmm.
Gregory Witscher (38:42)
⁓ but you know, I just bought 25,000 sleeves, so I'm not going anywhere. ⁓
Jenny (38:47)
No, I don't blame you. I'm just always curious what other people's
experiences are. Yeah. So, you know, one of the things I also wanted to ask you was you were saying that $17,000 it costs you for sleeves, rubber bands, deliveries, making the bouquets, you know, all that stuff.
Gregory Witscher (38:56)
Yeah, no, it probably does make a lot of sense.
Jenny (39:12)
When you're doing deliveries, are you going to each grocery store? Like, do you sell to a bunch of different grocery stores or is it like one main grocery store with a bunch of different franchises?
Gregory Witscher (39:25)
It's a bunch of different grocery stores. Yeah.
Jenny (39:27)
OK, so you're physically
delivering to every store. And do you have a delivery driver that works for you that does that?
Gregory Witscher (39:35)
Yeah, so I have two people doing two different deliveries. I have one person doing the deliveries, the wholesale deliveries on Tuesdays. And then I have somebody else, Sam, who just did all the deliveries today, Thursdays to the stores. And it's a mix of like grocery stores and also a few florists. Like we'll add on like some of the florists that couldn't get their orders in on Tuesday or before Tuesday. And then she'll be delivering to them too. And then also some florists who are like also selling.
some of the wraps as well. And then we also sell to like a co-op, which is one of our bigger sales outlets ⁓ that's nearby us here in Middlebury called the Middlebury Co-op. And that is the, you have? That's a great, it's a really nice store. It's crazy how many flowers they can move there. It doesn't even make sense because there's like not, yeah, there's, cause it's not like even like a ton of people in that town, but they sell a hundred times more flowers than any other.
Jenny (40:19)
I've been there.
It is.
Really?
Gregory Witscher (40:33)
Big stores. ⁓ And that. Go ahead.
Jenny (40:36)
Well, I think a lot of people, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt
you. I'm not from that area, so I don't really know at all, but we have really good friends who live in Starksboro that we go and visit often. And like they drive to Middlebury all the time. It's like all of their friends from the surrounding area seem to like go there to get all their stuff.
Gregory Witscher (40:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, it's a popular spot. And they do have good stuff. ⁓ But that's the one store that we are still selling on a commission basis. And that's probably not going to last forever, but ⁓ it's a bit questionable whether or not that's actually more profitable, because it does require more ⁓ labor from us.
Jenny (41:20)
Mm.
Gregory Witscher (41:25)
to manage all of our flowers there, because we're responsible for managing those flowers. ⁓ But we're also, they're taking a smaller percentage of the sales versus, so I wouldn't even call that wholesale. To me, that's more of a little more direct, it's kind of a hybrid wholesale retail situation. ⁓ So yeah, to answer your question, we do do all of our own deliveries ⁓ to all of our stores.
Jenny (41:38)
Mm.
And so for the commission base, do you, are you responsible for like the display and everything inside of their store? Or are you just responsible for like, you know, taking old bouquets and making sure it's refreshed every day or week or whatever? Like what goes into that?
Gregory Witscher (42:07)
Yeah, we are responsible for the display too. I just built a whole display a few years ago and it works great. And so yeah, it does require us going there. In the spring, when we're moving a lot of flowers, as you know, spring time's crazy, ⁓ we're there almost every day, refreshing that whole stand. And this fall, it will be like,
a little bit slower, we'll probably go every other day or every third day or something. And so that's what I mean by like it is, I haven't run the numbers on that, but intuitively I'm kind of like profitability wise with the added labor, it's probably a wash versus selling bouquets to all the other grocery stores that wholesale price. It's likely just a wash, but it also like,
allows for us to like have FaceTime with people, which is like something like I said earlier, it's kind of hard with like being more of a wholesale farm is like when you don't have like FaceTime connected with people, it's hard to one feel like a lot of energy and pride with what we're doing. If somebody's not being like, ⁓ these are so beautiful. And like, we love this because you're just like, here's the availability.
Here's the order. Beep, beep, blop, blop. And so it's nice to have that FaceTime, the interaction, the direct feedback. And also, it's within our community, so we have connection there. So even though it is kind of a pain in the butt, it's nice to have that kind of connection and feedback.
Jenny (43:35)
You
Yeah, I'm sure that's a huge positive for you to do that. And you also get to be kind of responsible for your own product. I've heard other, I don't know how common this is, but I had a friend who would always complain about one of her grocery outlets at the.
The people at the store like wouldn't like take care of her flowers or like wouldn't make sure there's like water in the buckets all the time or something like that. And so they would kind of wilt and die and her name's on it. And so she would get kind of frustrated that they weren't really like taking care of her product, but, ⁓ I don't know how common that is really. So yeah.
Gregory Witscher (44:15)
now.
Mm-hmm.
It's common. I mean,
it's pretty normal. very normal. ⁓ And it is like, I think a common frustration amongst farms ⁓ that, yeah, like some stores will leave bouquets out and they'll still be there a week later, you know, and they really shouldn't be. ⁓ And I have some stores that we sell to who've gotten like pretty smart about it where they'll like hold, they'll have bouquets for X number of days and then on day four or whatever, they'll like, they'll all be on sale.
And people know that. And so it kind of targets different customers, people who are wanting to like really price shop will like show up on day four for the sale and people who just like, yeah. And I think that's like, that's smart selling. ⁓ But I think it is, it is challenge for sure to like sell the big grocery stores and sell like a lot of flowers. And then you end up having that shrinkage that ends up getting associated with your brand, your business.
Jenny (45:07)
They figured it out.
Gregory Witscher (45:28)
And that sucks, but it also is kind of just like the name of the game a little bit.
Jenny (45:35)
Yeah, I mean, no matter what you're doing, there's always going to be frustrations that you have, right? It's the way that it is. So what would you say is the number one skill that you've had to learn or figure out that's contributed to your success with selling 85 % of your product through this wholesale and grocery model?
Gregory Witscher (45:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
guess a couple things that have been helpful and you probably hear this a lot because I think this is like a really common like business thing is just like consistency. You know, it's like so simple. It's just like consistency, just like showing up consistently. And for me, that means like having like specific times of the week where people can expect to get an availability.
Jenny (46:13)
Mm.
Gregory Witscher (46:31)
And then a specific time that they're going to get their orders in and then a specific time and window where they're going to receive those orders and ⁓ just trying to have that consistency from the very beginning of the season all the way to the end of the season. And it's hard to do that. I feel like it's easier to say it. It's easy to be like, all you got to do is just be consistent. But you know, in September when.
people are like knocking down your door because they need more flowers for their events. And like you're getting texts and emails and like, and your irrigation broke and your dahlias aren't blooming. Like it's hard to stick with that consistency, but I think for me it's like, personally, it's like, I've noticed it's better for me, just like my own personal wellbeing and like mental health, just be like, ⁓ I'm just going to do
this thing because that's what I told myself I would do every week. And it creates consistency for MAME. And I think it also helps all the customers we work with to have that consistency. So it is kind of redundant, but it is extremely important. And I think also just trying to be the best communicator that I can be, I think, really helped with
doing a decent job. The thing I do is just like, when something comes up, like just somebody's texting me right now saying that like their pink Sylvia doll is didn't arrive. And I'm going to be like, text them right away and be like, I'm so sorry. Like first, like being a good apologizer because shit happens. We all screw up and just owning it. And then figuring out a solution is like to me being a good communicator. And so.
I'm trying to every year just be a better communicator, giving back to people on important things and ⁓ apologizing and also being very clear about what the expectations are. And I think that helps on the back end of things with producing flowers, working with a team of people and being a good manager. And also on the sales ends of things where you're working with customers
A lot of it always comes down to relationships with people, you know, ⁓ and being able to communicate like, compassionately and clearly and with like a lot of like mutual respect feels really important to like trying to build a successful business.
Jenny (49:21)
Yeah. Being a good human. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Greg, you are a pretty great human and I am so thankful you came on the show to talk to me today. I feel like we could talk for a long time, but can you tell everybody where they can follow you online or find you if they have questions?
Gregory Witscher (49:23)
Yeah, pretty chill.
handle is ⁓ at under story farm on Instagram and that's that's where to find me.
Jenny (49:52)
Awesome. Well, everyone should go follow Greg at understory because I, I am not on social media very often anymore. Cause it's not great for my mental health, but whenever I do pop on there and your farm comes up, it's actually one of my favorite accounts. It's just feels like, I don't know, there's something about your account. That's like very relatable and like authentic and different. think it's because you have a lot of people in your pictures and like a lot of
hands and like people actually working with the flowers instead of just pictures of the flowers and I really appreciate that and I really like it so I love that.
Gregory Witscher (50:23)
⁓
Thank you. I appreciate that. And I appreciate everything you're doing. You're doing an amazing job. And I feel like I gained so much from your presentation this last winter. ⁓ And definitely feel like I could just talk to you forever and pick your brain.
Jenny (50:47)
Well, all right, let's pick each other's brains. I feel like that's what I'm doing for a living now when I have people on the podcast. I'm like, who do I actually just want to pick their brain and then try to get them to come talk to me on the podcast? So yeah, I it's really, I mean, it's for all flower farmers in the small scale flower industry, but it's also selfishly for myself as well. So because I'm a curious, but yeah. So thanks.
Gregory Witscher (50:50)
Ha ha ha!
That's pretty clever.
Nice. Love it.
Jenny (51:14)
Thank you for being here and for chatting with me and everyone go follow Greg and we'll see everyone next time in the next episode. Thank you. Bye.
Gregory Witscher (51:22)
Thanks, Jenny.
Bye.
