Jenny (00:28)
Welcome back. Today I'm actually republishing a previous podcast episode that I did back in March with the Flowering Farmhouse. This episode you're gonna hear today is actually episode number 51 of the Backyard Bouquet podcast. was originally published on their channel, but I'm republishing it here because I thought
Why not? You might find it valuable or useful. It's me being interviewed on her podcast. And also, quite honestly, things have been really busy with my business lately, and I just haven't had a lot of time to record another podcast episode. I am a real business owner running real companies. And so sometimes things just get really busy, and that's what happened this week.
But in this episode you'll hear today me and Jennifer, who is the host of the Backyard Bouquet podcast, talk a little bit about how I got started on my journey, how I switched from vegetables to growing flowers, some lessons that I've learned along the way. We talk about niching down and how that's key to standing out in some markets. Pricing and then we also talk a lot about
mindset shifts that are necessary to succeed in flower farming. So this whole episode is sort of centered around building a profitable flower farm and hopefully you'll find it useful. So let's dive in.
Speaker 1 (01:55)
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Backyard Bouquet podcast. Today we're chatting with Jenny Marks, the heart and soul behind Trademarks Flower Farm. Jenny's story is as colorful as her flower fields, from a regular day job to embracing the full bloom of life as a flower farmer. She's not just growing flowers, she's helping dreams take root through her on-farm workshops, online educational courses, as well as her podcast, Six Figure Flower Farming.
Jenny's switch from the corporate grind to the freedom of farming has inspired many to follow her path. Today, she's here to share her journey and offer tips for anyone looking to make their flower hobby into a thriving reality. Welcome to the show, Jenny. I can't wait to hear more about how you've cultivated not only beautiful flowers, but also a life you truly love.
Speaker 2 (02:46)
Thank you so much, Jennifer. I'm so excited to be here and to chat with you today. We're going to have so much fun.
Speaker 1 (02:51)
Yes,
it's so fun to be chatting with a fellow podcaster. love helping share other podcasts because I know when I'm out in my own field, an hour of a podcast is just not enough in a week. So I can go through about 10 podcasters a week. So I'm really excited for my audience to get to know you today.
Speaker 2 (03:08)
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:09)
So ⁓ let's just get started. This is my first time meeting you, which I'm really excited about. I've listened to your podcast, The Six Figure Flower Farming. What inspired you to become a flower farmer?
Speaker 2 (03:23)
So I actually had always wanted to be a farmer. I, guess I have been a farmer my whole life, just not with flowers. So I grew up farming. My parents were farmers. I grew up, I was like that kid in four H showing cows. I, I milked cows my whole life. My dad grew hay. So I threw bales of hay every summer growing up and it was my life really just agriculture has always been my life. went to.
school, I got a degree in agriculture after university. I worked for all different kinds of government places that helped out with agriculture, like USDA and state departments of agriculture. And so I've always been super immersed in farming and agriculture. And I always wanted to be a farmer, but everyone that I knew growing up told me, don't do it. It's way too risky. It's.
way too much work and in a lot of ways they were right about certain kinds of farming. But I just wanted to be in charge of my own time. I wanted to be in charge of my own life. I've never been good at working for other people. I always just wanted to do my own thing and do something that I was inspired by and was passionate about. so flowers really allowed me to do that. They...
Flower farming is so special because like the small scale flower farming movement really can be a viable career. And I just think that's amazing. And I'm so happy that I was able to make it work and figure it out. And it's the best. ⁓
Speaker 1 (05:00)
That's amazing. I didn't realize that you have grown up around farming your whole life and then you worked for the government with the USDA. So you probably have such a broad perspective of the agricultural industry as a whole then.
Speaker 2 (05:15)
Yeah, I feel like I really do. I've worked in, I've worked on vegetable CSA farms, livestock farms, fruit orchards, ⁓ know, cash crop farms, like you name it. I've probably done it and, at least have some exposure to it. So I feel lucky to know a lot about just agriculture and farming in general.
Speaker 1 (05:37)
I'm sure that gives you a step up in understanding how to make it a viable business because I think one of the things that's so hard for so many is I think a lot of us, we grow flowers for fun first as like a hobby and then we transition into it. But you came into farming with the mindset of already being a farmer.
Speaker 2 (06:00)
Yeah, I think that's probably the difference between me and a lot of other people is that I had actually, so it's kind of a funny story, but I had a vegetable CSA farm that I started when we bought our property in where we live now in New York. I'm not from here originally, but we bought an abandoned piece of property and I thought I wanted to start a vegetable CSA farm and then it just wasn't working. I found it very hard to sell kale and like bunches of carrots.
Um, but then I discovered actually Dahlia's. know that you are a big Dahlia lover and Dahlia's were the flower that introduced me to flower farming. And I was just doing some research one day about what else could I grow besides kale? And Dahlia's popped up on like my internet feed or whatever. And I was like, Oh my God, I'd never seen anything like it before. And just, you know, fell head over heels and was like, I could grow.
flowers instead of veggies and I could like make this happen as my business instead of the other way around where I think a lot of people fall in love with cut flower gardening and then eventually they're like, ⁓ I think I could make a business out of this. So I'm a little different from a lot of people, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:13)
that so how long have you been flower farming?
Speaker 2 (07:16)
I have been growing flowers on my flower farm in New York for just over a decade.
Speaker 1 (07:22)
Okay, so you've got quite a bit of experience kind of before the movement even started.
Speaker 2 (07:28)
Well, I think I probably started off when the movement was getting going. Got I think I was at the forefront of it. think Floret Flowers was just getting popular around that time and kind of fell into it at a trendy time, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:46)
Yes. Well, I mean, you mentioned Dahlia's and I think there's such a gateway for so many people. was looking on Facebook this morning and like the big Facebook Dahlia group has 253,000 members in it now. I was like, that's a lot of people just on one platform who are passionate about Dahlia's. And it's easy to see why. I mean, for me, it's like a Lays potato chip. I got my first Dahlia and I can't stop.
Speaker 2 (08:13)
Yeah, they're the gateway drug to flower farming.
Speaker 1 (08:16)
They
really are. So you still grow dahlias.
Speaker 2 (08:20)
Yes, we do. Yeah, that's one of our main crops that we grow on the farm, as Dahlia's.
Speaker 1 (08:25)
Can you kind of give us a picture of what does your flower farm look like?
Speaker 2 (08:29)
Yeah, absolutely. we have, we're very small. We grow just under an acre of cut flowers and we are very focused in what we do. So we don't grow a ton of variety on our flower farm. I started off my flower farm growing tons of different varieties, like well over 75 different kinds of flowers and a bunch of different varieties within all those different kinds of flowers. But over time we've really honed in on what we do. So we do few things, but I like to think that we do them pretty well.
So we grow mainly for retail outlets. sell mainly through a farmer's market, a CSA or a subscription program. And then we also sell Dahlia tubers as well. And we kind of do like a couple other little things here and there, but that's the bulk of our business. And then our two biggest crops are Ranunculus and Dahlia's and those make up just over 50 % of all of our cut flower revenue sales. And so those are two big crops that we focus on. then,
During the rest of the seasons, we kind of just like fill in the gaps with other things, but we're very focused and ⁓ just like really intentional about what we choose to grow on our flower farm in terms of profitability and enjoy as well.
Speaker 1 (09:46)
think that's so important what you said about being profitable and growing what brings you joy. Yes. I found personally that if I focus on growing what brings me joy, I'm more likely to put effort into that and then my profits also reflect that as well.
Speaker 2 (10:02)
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:04)
So you mentioned you're in New York. What growing zone are you in? Because New York gets pretty cold, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:10)
Yeah. And here in New York state, we have a lot of different growing zones. It varies widely, but we're in zone six. So we're, I feel like we're in a really good zone for growing because we get all four seasons. We do get pretty cold, but we have really nice hot summers too. So we have a lot of different flower types that are available to us to be able to grow in our zone. And I'm in Western New York state. So people
always think like, ⁓ New York City, but we're like seven hours from New York City. Yeah, we're super rural, Western, Western New York state. There are more cows in my county than there are people. So.
Speaker 1 (10:47)
my goodness. That's funny. Yeah, I mean, for me, think New York, New York City, let's go to Broadway. ⁓ But I know there's lots of agriculture there too. So being in zone six, when does your season start and end each year?
Speaker 2 (11:01)
So this is a tricky question because we play with that quite a bit. I think our frost-free season, so our main growing season, is usually from early to mid-May through early October. But we grow in high tunnels. We push the limits. We really focus on those shoulder seasons. So we sell flowers from April through the end of November. And we could even push the limits on that a little bit more in terms of
when we have our flower sales.
Speaker 1 (11:33)
Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying that. You've mentioned we. Is your pharma team or is it just you?
Speaker 2 (11:40)
So I feel like I always default to we whenever I'm talking about business or anything related to business, because it's definitely not just me. mean, I, I started the business on my own. I'm the sole owner of my business, but we have the best helpers in the entire world. have one main employee in particular who is like a godsend. She does so much on the farm. She's probably overhearing me talking about her right now in the other room.
And my husband helps out as well. He has his own full-time job, you know, off the farm, but he likes to help with projects and stuff like that. So we are a very, very small team, but there is a we.
Speaker 1 (12:18)
noticed a lot of farmers will say we even if it's just like them and their spouse help helps out occasionally so I thought I would clarify that but growing on an acre I think there's a misconception that you can easily do an acre by yourself and I mean maybe some people can but for me I definitely bring in help at that size so I was curious.
Speaker 2 (12:39)
Yeah, help helps.
Speaker 1 (12:40)
Yes,
I know we were chatting beforehand about virtual assistants because I have said on the podcast before that I need a virtual assistant. I've had a few people reach out and I am hopeful to be moving forward with that this spring, but it's hard to do a farm by yourself. There's so many tasks that have to be done.
Speaker 2 (13:01)
Yeah. And I think there is this like, I don't know, maybe not a misconception, but like, I think a lot of people who are attracted to being a business owner, they're really hard workers and they have a really high standard for the way that things are done. And so they feel like they have to do everything themselves. But the truth is it's very self, it's very limiting to rely on just yourself to try to do everything. And I just think that having help, even if it's just a
part-time helper to take a few things off of your plate. It's just so life-changing and we don't have to do it all ourselves. We really don't and it's better if we don't.
Speaker 1 (13:42)
I've learned that it's more freeing and I can get more done and accomplish more and grow better quality when I share that responsibility with someone else. But it was very daunting for me to initially give up that responsibility or that control because I don't know. For me, I like to control everything and Mother Nature has taught me that I don't get to control everything.
Speaker 2 (14:07)
yeah. Mother nature will teach you that lesson over and over and over again, right?
Speaker 1 (14:12)
my gosh, so many times. So are you still growing vegetables on the farm also? No, you let those go.
Speaker 2 (14:18)
No. ⁓
yeah. I mean, we have a very small garden ourselves, but it's, it's minuscule and every year it gets like a smaller and smaller and smaller. pretty much when I caught that flower bug, we like totally ditched the veggies and like right away I was like, I'm all in on flowers. So, Nope. Sorry. Veggies. Kale didn't get the cut.
Speaker 1 (14:41)
And besides growing flowers, you also teach.
Speaker 2 (14:44)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I also own a company called trademark farmer, where I teach small scale flower farmers how to grow profitable and sustainable businesses because let's be honest, we all love flowers. We're all obsessed with flowers, but the truth is that the flowers are not going to be what makes you have a profitable and sustainable business. It's really business skills, like understanding the numbers.
and understanding what's actually making you money in your business and what's not, marketing and sales, like those business skills are gonna be the difference between flower farm that thrives as a business versus one that fails. And so I'm particularly talking about for a business, not just, you know, a backyard gardener who loves to grow dahlias. Like I think that's amazing, but we're more teaching people who wanna be business owners.
Speaker 1 (15:37)
What would you say is one or two of the top qualities for someone to be successful at running a flower business?
Speaker 2 (15:46)
Um, I would say that you have to have a willingness to learn is probably the first thing. And then the second thing is the ability to persevere and not give up because the way that I look at it is anything in life that you want to do just involves you learning skills to do it. You know, if you want to be really good at growing dahlias, you just have to acquire the skills that it takes to be really good at growing dahlias.
And if you want to have a really profitable, successful business, there's just skills that you have to learn to be able to do that. And so I think anyone can learn if they have that willingness to learn. And then as you know, there's always going to be failures and setbacks and disappointing moments. And that's just a part of life and a part of being a business owner. You know, it's not easy. I'll never tell you that it's easy, but I do think that it's worth it. And when things do go wrong,
having that grit to just keep going, even though things might not be going your way. I just think that is so important and you really can't fail as long as you just keep moving forward. I know it's cliche to say that, but it's true.
Speaker 1 (16:58)
kind of goes back to that you're gonna kill a lot of plants. You're gonna make a lot of other mistakes too. I always feel like my mistakes are usually my best teachers on the farm. Can you share any experiences or lessons that you have learned through flower farming or any of your farming experiences, whether it's cows or working with vegetables?
Speaker 2 (17:09)
They are.
What lessons have I learned? ⁓ There have been a lot. ⁓ I think that I'm really fortunate in life to have had a lot of farming experience growing up and farming is really tough. There's a lot of really hard life lessons that can be learned. Like I have seen... ⁓
The biggest, most beautiful, most majestic animals that I loved die without, and I could do nothing to save them. And, and very horrific things like associated with that. I've seen nearly an entire crop of vernunculus flowers die from a fungal disease because I was in the hospital and was literally incapacitated and someone overhead watered them, which we never do. And it was like a humid day with the high tunnel side shut. And like, there goes like.
a lot of hard work and revenue. I've seen my old boss's fruit trees, all of his fruit get wiped out by a late frost and he basically had to live with no income for a year. Like the things that you learn from farming often come from some of the most difficult times. And it's hard because like you don't, nobody wants to endure those difficult times. Nobody wants to learn those hard lessons, but.
It makes you super resilient as a person. And so I find now that I don't really, especially lately, things that are very politically charged in the world right now, but I don't find that I'm very affected by that. Whereas a lot of other people seem to be very, very uppity, maybe not uppity is not the right word, but deeply affected by a lot of these horrible things happening in the world and stuff. I just feel like I've learned that life goes on and
we're all going to be okay. And happy moments always come after awful ones. So there's just so many lessons that you can learn from flowers and from farming and it's all messy and beautiful. And we just all keep marching on and things are all going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (19:31)
That's really beautiful, which you just shared. ⁓ I think a lot of people enter flower farming thinking it's so beautiful. You see these Instagram pictures of people are dancing with these bouquets in their field and it just, it's very romanticized online. And I mean, there is a part of it where you're out in your field and it's golden hour and you're like, this is the most beautiful thing in the world. But we are literally putting our hands in the dirt every day.
And it's dirty, it's messy. ⁓ And that resilience piece, I don't think people truly realize going into flower farming, the lessons that they will learn from that. And it makes you stronger though. mean, it's just really a powerful thing that people ⁓ don't realize. You teach so many people in flower farming. What would you say are the biggest surprises that you see from people that are entering as a new farmer?
Speaker 2 (20:30)
boy. ⁓ biggest surprises I see from people. Hmm. I would say that I'm always amazed at what people are really capable of. mean, not that I don't believe in people cause I really do, but a lot of times people come to me because they just don't know where to start and they don't know what steps to take and they don't know like what metrics to look at.
And if you just give them the tools that they need and teach them, you know, this is what to look at, or this is, you know, how to think about that, or maybe not how to think about this, but, know, give them the tools that they need. People can take that and just absolutely run with it. And it's so much fun for me to see people get the most like amazing results and really create the lives that they want to live. And that is super important to me because when I started my flower farm,
I really started it sort of like, I like to talk about lifestyle design a lot. Like I created my business around a life that I wanted to live. I wanted to work outside every day. I wanted to work with my hands. I wanted to be my own boss. And so I built my business around that. And it's really cool to see people do that for themselves. You know, just take a situation that they may not be super happy with. Like for me, I didn't like my job that I worked at for a long time. And.
think a lot of people are in that position where they're not like super thrilled about where they are in whatever position in life. Maybe that's a job or a situation, but they can just take very simple tools and turn it into this beautiful life that they've always wanted to live and they do it. And so I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:14)
love that. I love that you said you created this lifestyle because flower farming, think right now, especially with the Dahlia craze where everyone's like, Oh, you can sell a tuber for $35. can sell a tuber for $45. I'm going to get rich. I'm going to buy all these tubers and I'm going to start selling them. It's not the reality. Once you start diving into it, you're like, Oh, it's a little bit different, but it's a lifestyle that you're creating. And so it's not a get rich fast. If you're looking at a monetary
lifestyle, but I think that there's so much other richness that comes from farming.
Speaker 2 (22:48)
Exactly. Exactly. yeah, far, if you want to get rich, there's a lot more easier ways to do it than farming. Like that's probably the hardest way you could ever believe ever possibly pick to make money. But my, one of my old bosses that I used to work for, he had a vegetable and a fruit farm and he used to say, farming is not a job. is a vocation. And what he meant by that is that farming is a way of life. It's a lifestyle. You get.
this amazing richness from it. So maybe if you're not wealthy, like I'm certainly not wealthy, but I feel like I am because I get to do what I love every day, you know? And so I love what you said that it has this richness to it.
Speaker 1 (23:32)
Yes, and I was listening to a motivational speech the other day and they were talking about what is wealth to you and what does prosperity mean? And it doesn't have to, everyone in our culture is so quick to say it's how much money is in your bank account, but there's so much else that goes beyond it. It's that time with your kids or the time to put your hands into the soil, feeding your soul instead of sitting at a computer growing someone else's business all day. So ⁓ I love that you have
built this lifestyle that sustains you and your family in a way that you have. So I think that's really beautiful. Because you are a teacher, we haven't talked about this prior to the call, but this thought just came to me because there are a lot of people entering the flower industry right now as flower farmers. Do you think it's harder for someone to start out as a new flower farmer now and make a profit and become a profitable flower farmer than it was even five years ago?
Speaker 2 (24:33)
That's a really good question. I don't think it's any harder. No, I, I think that actually now more than ever, it's probably easier because back when I first started flower farming, so I had been farming for my whole life and I still really struggled with my business because there wasn't a ton of information out there about flower farming or how to grow specific flowers or how to grow in high tunnels or pests and disease management for
And there's certainly were zero resources that I knew of for running a flower business or running a flower farm business. But now there are just so many resources and there's so many people that have come before you and you get to kind of skip a lot of that hard trial and error. mean, there's always going to be some trial and error, but you get to learn from people who've already been in the trenches and they've learned the lessons and they can tell you like, Hey,
You should maybe look at doing it this way instead of doing it that way. Cause I tried that way and it doesn't work that good, you know? So there's just so many amazing resources out there now. Just even free resources on the internet, like your podcast, like my podcast, like there's so many people can learn very easily from people that have gone before them. So I don't think it's any harder. And I know that some people will probably argue and say that, there's so many people in the flower space now, but let me tell you.
People have been saying that ever since I started doing it over a decade ago. And so like that conversation has been the same since I started flower farming. And the truth is, you know, there may be more people coming into it now, but I don't think having more competition is necessarily a bad thing. I think it just pushes all of us to be better.
Speaker 1 (26:20)
I think it's interesting. I'm going into my seventh year as a farmer. And when I started, I live in a small town or county. I haven't checked recently, but it was around 20 something thousand people. So fairly small, but we have a large agricultural region around us. I think there was five or six other growers and we had a meetup two weeks ago and I was looking at our email list. There's 25 of us now in this area. So it's...
substantially grown. And I mean, this is everything from like less than a quarter acre to several acres in size for farming. So there's a wide variety of what people are doing. And that sounds like a lot, but yet when we go back and look at the fact that 80 % of our flowers are still imported, it's like there is so much room for new people to come in the market or existing growers to expand.
Speaker 2 (27:14)
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:15)
So how would you suggest that someone who is new or has a model that's maybe struggling right now, how do they differentiate themselves to stand out in the market?
Speaker 2 (27:26)
Yeah, so I think I could probably talk for an entire hour about this one question, but I will try not to. I think there's so many opportunities out there, so many. And one of the biggest things that I try to tell my students is to think about what you feel like you could be the best at in your area and really, really just hone in on getting so amazing at that one thing that
People literally just can't ignore you because you're so good at it. And I really think that there are so many opportunities for you to go a million different ways. Like an example this would be when I started, there was a few other flower farmers in my area around the city of Rochester. And at the time I was like, gosh, I don't want to like step on these other people's toes or like, we're going to be competing with each other. And the truth is that we all ended up going like, I don't want to say like separate directions, but you know,
I really focus on farmers market and CSA. Another girl focuses on just high-end weddings. That's all she does is high-end weddings. Another one of us does those like little, ⁓ like all a cart weddings and bulk buckets. Another person sells only to florists. And so there's all these opportunities for different sales outlets that I think that you can just kind of find your niche and get really good at it. then differentiate yourself with good marketing.
This is just a big one that I think a lot of people struggle with, but really honing in on what your brand voice is, figure out who you want to work with, who your ideal customer is and talk to that person. So you really attract the people that are going to appreciate your business to you. And there's just so many beautiful ways that you can do that. And very authentically too. So yeah, just trying to find your own little niche and get really, really good at doing something.
and that you can be known for in your area.
Speaker 1 (29:23)
I like that advice about the niche because I mean, all over, no matter what industry it seems like on social media, everyone's like niche down, niche down ⁓ and get good at something. And it's so true though, because when you try and do a bunch of things, you never know if you can be truly great at something.
Speaker 2 (29:43)
Yeah. And I also think that it stretches you in too many directions. Like I know for me, I feel like I've told this story a million times, but like I used to grow everything. used to try to sell to everyone. mean, we did. Farmers markets, CSA, Dali tubers, direct to florist wholesale. you know, ⁓ on farm, we did a farm stand. did workshops. We, mean, we did everything at once.
But the problem is we were kind of just doing like an okay job at everything. And like, yeah, you can like balance that and you can make it work and juggle all those things, but you're never going to get like really exceptionally good at doing just one or a few of those things. And that can be a really key differentiator for someone in the market nowadays.
Speaker 1 (30:33)
I think that's one of the things that's also really fascinating about flowers is that like, if you look at an apple grower or a cherry grower, or I'm trying to think of other examples that only grow one crop, there's only wholesale or retail or maybe a CSA that they sell to, or maybe a Yupik. There's like maybe four ways you can market the product. But with flowers, I mean, you just listed.
I wasn't counting, but probably 10 or 12 at minimum different outlets that flowers can move through. So I think we have a really unique industry that allows that opportunity for people to get creative and differentiate themselves like you were just saying. So I think that's a great point.
Speaker 2 (31:16)
Sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17)
So thank you for that. ⁓ Your podcast is called Six Figure Flower Farming. Would you say that it is possible for most flower farmers to make a six figure profit or what would you say is a realistic expectation for a flower farmer to strive for?
Speaker 2 (31:35)
Yeah. So I think that you can make as much or as little money as you want to with flower farming. Like people, they think that because the name of my podcast is six figure flower farming, that it's only for people who want to earn a hundred thousand dollars a year, whether that be gross or profit, that's up to whatever interpretation you want to take because you literally can just do whatever you want. It's your business. It's your life. know flower farmers that make.
⁓ half a million million, multiple million dollars a year. And I know flower farmers that make like 10,000 and they're, they're good with that. They just want to like make a little extra cash. So that's fine. I just want to say that, like, I think people set the bar for themselves far too low. And I'm not, again, not saying that it's easy to do, but you can earn as much or as little as you want. have farmer friends that literally make millions. have other farmer farmer, other farmer friends.
make hardly anything at all. So you could do anything in between, truly.
Speaker 1 (32:39)
like what you said that some of those people make 10,000 and they're good with that. And I think that's an important thing to recognize is that they're choosing that. And then the other people are choosing to make a million dollars. It's what you put into the business is what I feel like you get back. So we have a new 20 acre farm. We're not going to farm 20 acres, but our county is so heavy on fruit growers. And right now our field is a fallow field.
and we're trying to get approval to defer rebuilding because we have a house that needs to be torn down on the property. It's not livable. And our county on exclusive farm use land has a rule that if you don't get this deferral permit that we're trying to get right now, that you have to earn a minimum of $80,000 a year for a minimum of two years out of the following five-year period to get a new approval to build a house. And the guy just looks at me and he says, well, you'll never qualify for that.
And I said, well, why is that? And he goes, this is a field of grass and you're telling me you're gonna grow flowers. That's not gonna make any profit. And I was just kind of taken back. was like, if I wanted to maximize the 20 acres, there's unlimited potential here. But I was like, if you only gave me an acre of this, I could still hit your requirements. So why are you?
Speaker 2 (33:48)
geez.
Speaker 1 (34:03)
limiting me. And I think it reminded me of these limiting beliefs that we have that we like tell ourselves these lies that one of the things I heard last year from a grower in our area that just grows flowers for fun and is kind of dabbling with selling flowers. She had her flowers for $5 at this other farm for sale. And they were beautiful dahlias. And she said something to me when I came and she almost seemed embarrassed that I was seeing her price. And she was like,
I just didn't know if people would buy them. It's my first year. And it's that limiting belief that you're telling yourself that you're not capable of more when reality is there's people that will pay $5 for a Dahlia stem. And here's this little bouquet of Dahlia's for $5. So I think it's our limiting beliefs. And so I really love what you're doing by showing people what's possible because I think when we see that other people can do that, it makes us say, well, if she can do that, why can't I?
Speaker 2 (35:02)
Yes, exactly. I love that you said that. that's exactly, so this is actually the reason why my podcast is called Six Figure Flower Farming is because when I worked for USDA and still had a lot of limiting beliefs about money and farming, I didn't think that it was possible to earn a living on a small scale farm, especially the small scale flower farm. I did not believe it was possible because that's what I had been told my whole life.
But then I saw somebody else that actually had a vegetable farm that was farming one acres or just one acre. And they were earning like $150,000 a year gross from that one acre and paying themselves like a 40 to 50 % profit margin. And I was like, if they can do that with vegetables, I could do that with flowers. And so it's really powerful.
when people share what is possible because it really raises, like, what's that saying? A rising tide lifts all boats. Like, I really believe that. So I love that you said
Speaker 1 (36:09)
Yes. Well, that's what's so inspiring. think about the stories that you're telling on your podcast or the guests that you're interviewing. And just like you just shared, you hearing or seeing that vegetable grower that did $150,000 on an acre. Is that the moment that you said, well, I could grow flowers and do this?
Speaker 2 (36:29)
Yeah. I mean, it was the moment where I realized that I could, if they could do it, I could make a living farming in some capacity. There's like, if they can do it, I can do it. There are no, and that's the thing that people look at me. I'm no different than anybody else. Like I don't have any special skills or circumstances or anything. Neither does anyone else who's successful. I mean, maybe not everybody else, but you know, it's, just, like I said before, at very beginning, it's just skills that you have to learn.
Speaker 1 (36:59)
And you said learn, which anyone can learn those skills. I really believe it's a lot about the mindset, which it goes back to the resilience of being a farmer. I really feel like that's the main full circle.
Speaker 2 (37:13)
Yeah. Mindset is a huge piece of it. Huge piece of it. feel like with a lot of my students, I'm always just kind of like adjust, helping them adjust their mindset about things to be like, yeah, like the work that you do is really important. It is worth like, you can charge the prices that you deserve. And there are people who are happy to pay you for it. And you know, we're not, we're not trying to like, you know,
cheap people out of their money or something like that, but we're all helping each other out in the world by doing things that we love to do and charging appropriate prices for them.
Speaker 1 (37:50)
think that that is a really hard mindset for people as they're starting out because they're still learning those skills. At least I'm speaking from like when I started out, it was scary to charge those prices at first. And so I think it's easy to be like, I'm going to undervalue what I'm selling because I'm new. And so you tell yourself those lies that I'm new at my product's not as good of quality. How do you
help people around those mindsets and help them shift their mindsets if they're your student.
Speaker 2 (38:23)
Yeah. So I, you know, I think when you are very first starting out, you maybe don't have the skills yet to feel confident charging higher prices or, know, maybe you don't have the skills where you don't really have the quality yet, but that's okay. You know, if you don't feel like you're there yet, if you're not comfortable yet, you need to charge what you feel comfortable in the moment, but have a goal for yourself, you know, and one of the
Most powerful things. One the most powerful exercises I take my students through is explaining to them about how their sales are really helping other people. Like a lot of people feel like very icky and gross about like sales and like taking money from people. And like, I've totally been there. This is something that I really had to learn and took me a long time to learn. But when you sell something like flowers, you really truly are improving someone's life.
You're giving them, you're handing them a bundle of happiness for God's sake. Like we have so many examples from our own customer base where people come and buy flowers from us. And it's really like a mood altering life altering experience for them. And so you can't hold yourself back from selling your flowers because you know, I've heard this from other much more smarter people than me, but
You know, selling is really serving. And when you fail to share the gifts that you cultivate with the world, you're really stealing from the people who need it most. I think I first heard that from Marie Forleo. I could be wrong about that, but so don't quote me. That's great. It sounds like something she would say, but, ⁓ and I really believe that's true because just one simple example is we have a couple, an older couple that comes to our farmer's market and they buy flowers from us every weekend to put on their dead granddaughters grave.
heartbreaking, it's horrible. But they have a positive experience from buying from me because I care. The grocery store doesn't give a two craps about them, you know? They have a positive experience for me and the flowers that they buy for me are so different and so much more beautiful. They mean something when they use them in their grief and while they're grieving for their dead granddaughter. And it's just like,
Every time I feel weird about selling or charging those prices, I just think about what I'm doing is really important and is really needed in the world. And I think now more than ever, we just need more beauty and happiness in the world, like really more than ever. So I think getting into that mindset where what I do really matters and is really important can be super helpful and getting people to shift their mindset. And, it's something that I really struggled with when I started my business, when I shifted from my veggie farm.
I was like, I'm growing these organic vegetables, I'm feeding the world, regenerative agriculture is so important. I felt like I was part of a higher purpose. But then when I switched to flowers, I was like, they're just flowers. You can't eat them. They're just pretty to look at. They're just luxury. But over time, after interacting with my customers and hearing more stories about the one I just told you, I realized this is super important and that
I'm sharing something important with the world and that I shouldn't be ashamed of charging for it because it helps me do more of it.
Speaker 1 (41:47)
That's a really beautiful story and vulnerable story you just shared. So thank you for sharing that. That affirmation, what I do really matters is so powerful. I've talked with so many guests on the podcast about the fact that flowers feed the soul. And it's amazing how many growers were previously growing vegetables and discovered that there's this, that they at first felt the guilt of like, I'm not feeding people anymore, but they're feeding in a different way.
And so when you said that what we are doing is creating an experience, I don't know why, but that just like hit this nerve today of like, was so like hitting the nail on the, or the hitting the hammer on the needle. I'm not, can't say the right terminology. The nail on the head. Thank you. But like, I mean, we're not just selling a product. I mean, when they go home, there is an emotional experience.
Speaker 2 (42:33)
Nail on the head.
Speaker 1 (42:45)
tied to that bouquet that they're gonna remember long after those flowers die, but they're also gonna experience a life cycle of watching those flowers either continue to bloom or fade before they die on the countertop. for me, I've never really thought about, I mean, that maybe sounds really terrible that here I am saying this, like I've been doing this for seven years, but putting in the mindset that we're selling an experience to people.
Speaker 2 (43:12)
Yeah. As small business owners, is, ⁓ you're not really selling flowers. Let's be honest. You're selling an experience. You're selling joy. You're selling happiness. You're selling connection. You're selling this like bigger piece of the world where you're connecting someone to nature, where most people are so disconnected from the natural world. Like you are doing that. You're really connecting them with an experience. You're not just selling flowers.
You're giving people an experience.
Speaker 1 (43:45)
That is such a powerful mindset shift. Thank you for sharing that. ⁓ I'm just thinking like, it kind of goes full circle too that like this experience really doesn't even start the moment you hand up, okay, that experience starts with your story, which goes back to your marketing of how important your story is because often, I mean, like I was saying, if there's 23 growers in our area,
Every person that comes and buys is gonna buy from a different grower because of their connection to that person.
Speaker 2 (44:17)
Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so true. People, I think people worry about competition a lot, but the truth is like, you're just going to find your people or rather your people will find you and, their people will find them. And that's just the way it is, you know?
Speaker 1 (44:34)
That's such a great point. Speaking of finding your people and your community, one thing that I think is different because I went from corporate America to owning another business to being a flower farmer. I used to work with people all the time. Being a flower farmer, especially as you're building your business and you don't have any employees can be kind of lonely. How did you find your community or your tribe in the flower industry?
Speaker 2 (44:59)
that's a good question. It's definitely super lonely. Not a lot of people will understand why you're doing what you want to do, or they'll not, they won't believe in you. They will think that it's just like this cute little endeavor that you're going on and, and it's okay for them to not understand. You just really have to believe in yourself. But something that helped me was just.
trying to get in rooms with other people that were already doing what I wanted to do. So I joined the ASCFG, the association of specialty cut flower growers, which now I am the Northeast regional director of. serve on the board of directors for them, which is so fun by the way. But I would go to conferences and I would just go to their online meetings or, you know, presentations. I would listen to podcasts. So.
At first, I didn't know really anyone else that was doing this except for like one person in my hometown and Connecticut that I called up and was like, Hey, I think I want to be a flower farmer. Can you help me? But besides that, I didn't really know anyone. And so I think just immersing myself in situations where I could hear other people talking about this from podcasts and those conferences and presentations, like it really helped me feel like I wasn't alone and that it was really possible because here there are all these other people who are doing it.
Speaker 1 (46:25)
Absolutely. I love that you mentioned that you actually went to events and became involved with the ASCFG, which I actually said properly this time. I always tongue tie that acronym.
Speaker 2 (46:38)
I'm
hoping someday they'll change it to make it a little easier to say because it's a mouthful, but.
Speaker 1 (46:44)
Yes, I'm pretty sure I mispronounce it every time I have a guest. like, I'm a member, but I can't pronounce it. ⁓ But it's such a ⁓ valuable and important service because like you said, there are so many people that are like, ⁓ you do what? Because our industry, I think, is still so young as flower farmers, as we're rebuilding. I mean, I don't know any massive flower farmers. Like when you look at the USDA, they classify small farms as 500 acres or smaller.
Like I'm pretty sure every single flower farm in the US is a small farm and you feel more like you're on an island. But when you have these connections, I think it's so powerful. Can you tell us a little bit about the AES CFG, especially since you are a regional director?
Speaker 2 (47:29)
Yeah, absolutely. So it's this organization or this association has been around for just geez, for a long time. And they are like, just so passionate about helping specifically small scale cut flower growers find what the information they need to find to thrive. And there is something for everybody there. They have all these conferences that they put together. They're all about education and research as well. They fund a lot of.
cut flower research, which is important. They even have like scholarships and stuff for people for going to university, but they put together presentations. have experts that talk every week and they have a quarterly magazine that comes out every quarter, obviously every quarter and, with just amazing articles in there that you can read and get sets sent straight to your mailbox. And it's just a wealth of information. There is this huge backlog.
of all kinds of things. I mean, about anything you can imagine from crop specific, like how to grow specific crops, know, pests and disease, marketing and business stuff, they've got a lot of resources there. So I recommend them to anybody who is starting out with flower farming. It's a great place to go.
Speaker 1 (48:46)
I've been grateful to be a part of it. And one of my goals this year is to make one of the regional conferences. I think it'd be so fun to meet more people. I feel so connected to the industry through getting to talk to people like you, but there's just something so powerful about getting to be face-to-face with people that are doing the same thing as you and understand your struggles. And can celebrate too with you.
Speaker 2 (49:09)
Yeah, a hundred percent. think it's a really underrated part of success is when you can find like your little flower friends that you can bounce ideas off of, just not have somebody to relate to. Like when you're like, ⁓ I have a A-FID apocalypse happening and I can't sell any of my flowers. And somebody else would be like, that happened to me once, you know, and where as no one else in the entire world is going to get it. And so it's so powerful to do that. And
Actually, one of my favorite things I do is we teach on farm workshops every summer. And I've found that I've made more friends from hosting people on my farm through our workshops that I have pretty much anywhere else because we cultivate this space for people to be able to like really talk about what's going on in their lives and with their business. And it's just so nice to have those connections.
Speaker 1 (50:03)
When you say on farm workshops, are these for other farmers or these are for community members? Can you tell us about those workshops?
Speaker 2 (50:08)
for other farmers.
Uh, sure. Yeah. So, um, I've been teaching these on-farm workshops for quite a few years. And the biggest one that we do, the main workshop that I teach is called, we just changed the name of actually it's called lean flower farming and where I teach systems and efficiency for growing a profitable business. And it's a two day intensive workshop on the farm where you come to my farm and little Clifton Springs, New York and
As a small group of people, usually we have about 15 people and we keep it small on purpose. So we can actually like all connect with each other and anybody can ask questions and we have lots of time for that. But we go through all, like all aspects of flower farming through the lens of business and profitability. Cause I think that's a really missing piece and so much out there is that if you want to have a business, you have to learn how to grow and you have to learn how to, you know,
manage all the things, but through a lens of profitability. And so we do two days on the farm talking about, ⁓ just everything, literally everything, seed starting, transplanting, marketing. We talk about it all. And then we have an optional third day where we talk about high tunnel growing and season extension, specifically about profitable crops to grow in high tunnels, actual managing high tunnels and the structures.
extending your season for, you know, getting those extra sales and revenue throughout the season. It's my favorite thing that I do. It's so much fun. Um, we have like big pizza party together and all get to hang out and everybody leaves with, I mean, we've had people from all over the country come to it and then everybody leaves and seems to really take that information and do something really amazing with it. Like we've had people leave that workshop in the next year.
break six figures in revenue in like their third year of business. We've had people quit their jobs to become flower farmers. We've had just so many amazing success stories.
Speaker 1 (52:12)
That sounds amazing. you mentioned you've had a third year farmer and you've had someone quit their day job. Who is the ideal person to come to these workshops?
Speaker 2 (52:23)
Ideally somebody who already knows the basics of cut flower growing, but who wants to build a profitable business and is really determined and the idea that they want to make their flower farm a real business and they want to earn at least maybe not a living from it. A lot of people want to come to learn how to make their flower from a career, but at least make a significant profit. Cause there are a lot of people out there, a lot of people who come to the workshop who
just want a profitable little side hustle. know, they have a part-time job or their mom or a parent and they want something to do kind of on the side, but that earns them a little bit of extra money.
Speaker 1 (53:00)
That sounds like so much fun. you be offering that this year?
Speaker 2 (53:04)
Yeah, so the dates this year are gonna be July 28th and 29th on our flower farm.
Speaker 1 (53:10)
Awesome. Well, you will provide a link in the show notes. Well, Jenny, it's been so fun getting to learn more about you and your business and your passion for helping others become profitable in this industry. Is there anything I haven't asked you today that you want to share with our listeners?
Speaker 2 (53:13)
That would be great. Thanks.
You know, I do, I just want to say that there is an incredible amount of noise and negativity out in the world of people telling that telling you no, or people telling you that it's not possible. You can't do it. And I just want to tell you, just don't listen to them. Follow your North star and wherever you're looking for proof in the world, you're going to find it. If you think that it is not possible to earn a living from a flower farm,
When you look out into the world, all you're going to see is proof that that's possible. But if you think that it is possible, you're going to look out into the world and you're going to find proof of it. So your life follows the attention that you put someplace. And I just think, I just think that you should just be positive. And if you want to do something, just go do it. That's all I have to say.
Speaker 1 (54:20)
love it. That is my philosophy too. So I think that's fabulous advice. I'm so grateful that you carved out some time to join us on the podcast today. For those who want to learn more about you or your business or your online education or your podcast, how can they find you?
Speaker 2 (54:38)
Yeah, so you guys can find me at, my website is TrademarkFarmer.com. My Instagram is at Trademark Farmer, and that's T-R-A-D-E-M-A-R-K, farmer. I teach a online business course called Six Figure Flower Farming that's all about the business side of growing a profitable flower farm. Plus you heard about my on-farm workshops, and then I also have a free,
Business Foundations course available right now. It's only available for a few more weeks, but if anybody wants to sign up for that, they can go to trademarkfarmer.com forward slash startup. So totally free business foundations course for very beginning flower farmers who are looking to start a business.
Speaker 1 (55:21)
We will provide links to all of those in today's show notes. So Jenny, thank you so much for joining us today. This conversation was so fun and I love the mindset that what we do really matters. I think that's so powerful. So thank you for coming and sharing your story today.
Speaker 2 (55:40)
Thank you. was such an honor to be here. So thank you for having me, Jennifer.
Speaker 1 (55:44)
door
is always open. Maybe you can come back again sometime. Thanks, Jenny.
Speaker 2 (55:47)
I'd love to. All
right, bye bye.
Jenny (55:51)
Hey, one last thing before you go, if you haven't yet, could you please leave the six-figure flower farming podcast a review on Apple or Spotify? If you have gotten any value or insight out of this podcast at all, it would seriously mean the world to me and to your fellow flower farmers because those reviews help them find the super valuable information they need to build their profitable and sustainable flower farm businesses. So.
please just take 30 seconds. It literally takes no time at all. So go ahead and leave a review now and I will be forever grateful. Thank you so much in advance and I'll see you next time in the next episode of the Six Figure Flower Farming Podcast.
