Jenny (00:28)
If you're somebody who is growing on a very, very small plot of land, or maybe you don't have a lot of land available to you, today's episode is for you. Today I'm talking with Dee Hall Goodwin, who is a Norfolk, Virginia-based florist and urban microfarmer. And she blends eco-consciousness and artistry through her locally grown seasonal blooms. She actually started her flower farm in her front yard in her neighborhood, believe it or not, and it was inspired by her grandmother.
Garden in St. Lucia and her childhood in Brooklyn. And she really founded her farm which is called Mermaid City Flowers to celebrate nature's beauty. She is the founder of the Tidewater Flower Collective and Black Flower Farmers and she champions sustainable practices and diversity in flora culture. Her work has been featured in Black Flora, Garden and Gun, and Country Living and reflects her dedication to florestry as a blend of art, nature, and heritage.
And today we are talking all about farming on multiple plots of land, urban farming, farming on small areas, events, flower trucks, and pivoting and being flexible as a flower farmer. So we're covering all of these topics and more during this episode, and I really think you're going to enjoy it. So without further ado, let's hop on in.
Jenny (01:49)
hey Dee, thanks for hopping on the podcast with me today. Yeah, I am really excited to talk to you today about your teeny tiny little farm and all the things that go with it and some other exciting projects that you have in the works. So can you just start off by telling everyone about who you are and about your farm?
Dee Hall Goodwim (01:53)
Hey, thanks for having me.
I'm DeHull Goodwin and I run Mermaid City Flowers, which is an urban flower farm based in Norfolk, Virginia. I have an unusual model in that I use community land sourcing, which means I started off growing at my house and then made friends with all the neighbors who then let me grow flowers at their houses. you know, nobody said, no, don't do this. It's a terrible idea to try to start a farm like this. And so I did.
And that's kind of how it got started. I'm in season five, season six. I barely know what year it is, what time it is. But it's gone surprisingly, it's gone pretty well and continues to kind of grow. I have a floral design studio. So I share a studio with four other creatives and I design from there.
Jenny (02:39)
Hahaha
Dee Hall Goodwim (03:06)
retail. I do weddings and events, corporate events. I host workshops in my studio. And this year I've added a little flower truck to the mix. So we are going to be out and about the region slinging flowers from the back of my little truck.
Jenny (03:24)
I'm really excited to talk to you about your flower truck in particular, because that's such a fun little business model. So that's so cool. And also for anybody listening, I hear all the time people are like, oh, I can't have a real flower farm business, because I don't have any land. I just have a little plot of land, just my backyard. And I'm like, oh no, you have to talk to people like Dee.
Dee Hall Goodwim (03:30)
It is.
No, you'd be surprised.
Yeah, you'd be surprised how much you can grow in small spaces. I I always plant smaller, closer together than what we're supposed to grow. mean, we have what the standards tell us, and then there's what you can do, especially depending on what you're growing and if you companion plant and kind of put.
I have plants that shade other plants or plants I know I can start putting in as others are finishing up. There's a lot of ways to be really, it's forced me to be creative and there's a lot of ways to do it, especially if you can kind of be creative and think outside of the box as far as what your options are.
Jenny (04:31)
Yeah, so you started right in your yard and at what point did you outgrow that space?
Dee Hall Goodwim (04:36)
Yeah.
I I grew it pretty quickly. The first year I went to market and I was so proud with my little like dozen bouquets that I made. was like, look at me, I'm at the farmer's market with my flowers. And then I joined the ASCFG, the Association for Specialty Cut Flower Growers and kind of got to learn more about markets and kind of marketing psychology.
Jenny (04:44)
haha
Dee Hall Goodwim (05:12)
and what to look for and what to do as far as, you know, that kind of thing goes. And so I knew like working the first season that I was going to have to expand and pretty quickly because my space was in my front rather than backyard. And I lived in a neighborhood where people spent a lot of time outdoors, walking, walking their pets with their kids, et cetera. It offered a lot of opportunity to.
talk to and get to know my neighbors. And so and it's a big gardening neighborhood too. And so it kind of went from there. I had a neighbor directly across the street who'd moved in and he'd built these cool raised beds. He had irrigation, he had drip tape that was connected to rain barrels that he added a pump in. But he was not really good at growing anything. And he was like, hey, I have this like ready made space if you're interested in it. I was like, what kind of question is that? Literally, I just have to walk across the street.
And he had cool stuff on property, like he already had smoke bush, Katinas there, and peonies and other things that I could kind of utilize in my work. yeah, pretty quickly it went from there. And I think that after the first year, I put out a land call and either people offered up growing space or they knew somebody who might have space that might work for me.
So that's kind of how I've gotten to where I am. Not every space that people have offered up have worked for various reasons. And I wanted to keep it not too far a distance. Like recently I was offered space that's about an hour away. And Mima Urban Buds was like, D, what is gonna happen if you think you forgot to turn off your irrigation? What is gonna happen? Like think about these things when you're an hour away. You know what I mean?
Jenny (06:56)
Ha!
Dee Hall Goodwim (07:00)
Do you want to have to go that distance? You want to be up at night thinking, I do this? Did I close the shed? Did I lock these things up? And so I was like, yeah, you're probably right about that. But yeah, I try to keep it within that radius. My studio is also about 15 minutes away. I wanted to really stay and work and show people that you could do it in the community where I live.
Jenny (07:27)
That is so wild. So first of all, your neighbor that already had drip irrigation and smoke bush, that was meant to be, 100 % meant to be. So about how many plots of land are you cultivating and farming right now?
Dee Hall Goodwim (07:32)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right now there are four total. I moved out of the house that I was in in the neighborhood. So I grow at home and then I grow in three additional spaces, including two in my old neighborhood. And I was out with a flower truck on Saturday and someone was like, somebody told me that you're looking for space. have this, I don't know if it would work for you, but if you wanna come check it out. And so I just got a lead on Saturday. It's a lot of,
Word of mouth, find is extremely, extremely important and has been essential for my business. So yeah, I have four spaces active right now.
Jenny (08:24)
So how did you initially start putting the word out? Were you just talking to your neighbors and you're like, hey, I'm looking for some land?
Dee Hall Goodwim (08:29)
I was so it was a combination of yeah,
I was a combination of that and I put a message I think on Instagram like hey I'm looking for that so people who were local or I even had like farmers who were far away other farmers But they knew people in the area like my sister lives there or this person. know this person so maybe That could be a lead but the other thing they have in common and I tell people that you know, it's not just
you just jump into it like, yeah, I'll take your land. You have to be in the community and you have to be part of the community and people need to see you out and about and doing things that they feel are beneficial. So, right, it's not just me going up to a stranger and being like, hey, they all had some kind of knowledge of me, whether directly or through, my town is 200,000 people, but I to say it's a small town. You're only like one or two degrees separated.
from anybody ever. And so like one of the homes, the couple is, it's an architect and a graphic designer. So like they recently redid their shed to look like a Xenia. It's really cool. But, and they had a gorgeous yard that's on the water. And the previous owners had grown things there, but they didn't really want the responsibility or the work of having to maintain that.
Jenny (09:41)
⁓ that's awesome.
Dee Hall Goodwim (09:53)
And so I came in, I put in raised beds, know, trucked in compost and kind of went from there. That's still one of my most challenging plots because it's on the river and there are otters and raccoons and birds and all kinds of stuff that leave presents for me in the beds and bunnies that eat things. So trying to figure out the unusual pest pressure of what's an urban environment, but also, you know.
Jenny (10:11)
my gosh.
Dee Hall Goodwim (10:22)
very much in nature at the same time.
Jenny (10:26)
I feel like urban animals are the worst. I have a lot of customers who have gardens in the city where I am, and they always are like, my deer ate literally all my flowers, or that chipmunks dug things up. And I don't really have those problems where I am.
Dee Hall Goodwim (10:30)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Raccoons or squirrels. Squirrels are a, I have a big
issue. The squirrels are so disrespectful. They just take my tulips up, just chew them and just leave half a bulb on the side. I'm like, that's so rude. So yeah, so I started interplanting tulips and daffodils, but also like alliums and I grow a lot of natives. And so I started using some like native onions too, to try to, you know, see if scent deterrents work.
Jenny (10:55)
Jerks.
Dee Hall Goodwim (11:09)
because I don't spray, don't use any, everything is chemical, but what we consider harmful chemicals, et cetera. And so I'm always trying to figure out ways to combat or minimize pest pressure without doing too much damage.
Jenny (11:17)
Mm-hmm.
Got it. So I feel like it's got to be challenging to have all of these different plots of land where you're driving around trying to mitigate those pests and animals or whatever. Would you say that that's a minimal problem for you? Or is that something that's always a big challenge?
Dee Hall Goodwim (11:54)
think that's a pretty minimal problem for me. I think now I have one plot that is on year two, but the others I've had long enough that I have kind of figured out, you know, what works, what doesn't work. And in fact, I was just, I just drove around yesterday looking at different spots, trying to see, you know, like I have one place where like peonies do really well, sedum does really well.
Jenny (11:56)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Hall Goodwim (12:21)
lilies, particular things do really well. And I'm trying more to focus on, you know, keeping what works there and removing the things that don't work. Like at that same site, I have a Ruscus and it's just too much for some reason, even though I think it's kind of a shadier spot, guess not because it kind of gets burned up there. So I know I need to take those out and relocate them in a place where there's a little more shade. So it's more like kind of the challenges of
You know, the weather, figuring out the soil conditions and how those might change, especially if you have animals adding organic materials to your soil that you didn't put there. And kind of going from there. So the pest pressure is not, not too badly, but the squirrels last year in the tulips was like, I was just really, I was pissed. You know, they were just, they were just digging them up and I'd be like banging on the window like an old lady, like, out of here. You know.
Jenny (13:08)
Ha ha!
be doing the same thing probably. One thing I forgot to ask you, meant to ask before. So you're farming about four plots of land, like how about how much space would you say in total do you have under cultivation like a half an acre like more or less?
Dee Hall Goodwim (13:20)
Yeah. Yeah.
Like
three quarters of an acre, I'd say right now with those faces. And so I always, I keep saying this, I'm at past the point of needing help. But recently I went into a friend's shop and there was somebody there who had flower farmer florist experience and is interested in coming on. So I'm hoping that that will work for me because
My family is probably tired of being the extra sets of hands. My husband, I tulips and I told him I was traveling and I asked him to plant some more tulips and he planted them directly on top of where I had already planted the other tulips. So I was just like, did you not notice the soil disturbance? Did you not? You know, so it would be nice to have somebody who has some experience that, you know, could help me.
Jenny (14:17)
my gosh.
Ha ha!
I feel like that's one of the biggest challenges of owning a flower farm. Whether it's, I think any business, any flower farm is finding and training good help. And it's really hard to train quote unquote your family members because they're like, I'm just here to help you. Right?
Dee Hall Goodwim (14:41)
Right.
Right.
Yeah, yeah. And when you say,
you know, I'm like, cutting things and they just think, you're just cutting them. I'm like, no, there are correct stages to cut an anemone. If I cut daffodils, I'm putting them separately because of the sap. All these kind of small things that we know, right, that they may not know. And they just kind of, to everybody, I guess, does what comes naturally to them. And you're like, no, that's not what I was looking for. So it'll be nice to have some, you know, professional help.
Jenny (14:57)
Yeah.
That'd be great. hope you can get some good help because it sounds like you need a, you're doing such, you're doing so much. You have this amazing business model and you have all these different plots of land and you're really making it work. And I think a lot of flower farmers think like, well, you know, they just meet some sort of resistance and it's easy to just give up, but you're like, you're just making it happen and find ways to do it, which is really impressive. So
Dee Hall Goodwim (15:21)
Yeah. Yeah.
You
Jenny (15:46)
I'm curious, what are your top sales outlets with this micro urban business model?
Dee Hall Goodwim (15:53)
So
events are my top outlet for sure. And I'm finding already this spring events are it's I'm having I have more events than I would normally have already at this time of year. I was like putting stuff on the calendar. I'm like, my goodness, this is a lot. I have some weekends that are double booked, which I don't do very often. But I think my business is kind of
Jenny (15:57)
Mm-hmm.
you
Dee Hall Goodwim (16:20)
at that stage, at that mid-stage where it's not quite beginner. And there's been enough press, enough people finding out about me in various ways that they're turning more and more to me and to Local Flower specifically. I people saying, I have an event in April and I want dogwood or whatever it is, really looking for those seasonal things specifically, even for corporate.
events and galas, which is kind of really interesting to me. So that's one of the top ways. Workshops are another top one. I cut out CSAs this year. This is finally the year I'm not going to do it anymore. The first year or two I delivered, which we know is a nightmare if you have a CSA that takes days literally to deliver everything you need to. And then I moved to having spots where people would pick up.
Jenny (17:04)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Hall Goodwim (17:18)
A lot of people would forget about their flowers. And finally I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna cut it. And so instead this year I have a workshop subscription. So I have a themed workshop series. Since I share my studio with an artist and our bottom floor is an art gallery, I thought why not do something art inspired? So, cause I did last year, I did a Baroque inspired workshop and that was really popular. And so,
Jenny (17:21)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Hall Goodwim (17:48)
Sorry, Dutch Masters. And so this year I decided I'm gonna do a seasonal one for each one. So coming upcoming, the first one is gonna be in April and it's gonna be based on Impressionist, the works of the Impressionists. And so I'm hoping that will be a big hit, subscribing to a workshop series and having something tangible that you can do, because I feel like people really want the experiential and want to learn something. And so fingers crossed that that is gonna.
be, but workshops have been really popular, whether it's in my studio or private workshops or workshops and demonstrations for private clients.
Jenny (18:29)
That's a really genius idea to do a subscription like that. I have not heard of anybody doing that, but I love that idea. Really cool.
Dee Hall Goodwim (18:36)
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, I hope it's gonna be, because I mean, I'm like, I think it's a good idea. Let's see if the public also thinks it's a good idea. You know, so I kind of tried to keep it local in some like the winter one we're gonna do is gonna be kind of nature based on what's available here, which we know it's not flowers, but more, you know, evergreens, twigs, pines, whatever is out that you could find in winter.
So I'm hoping that'll take off because I don't think I could go back to traditional CSAs. just don't, my market can't support it or at least not for me. There are other growers here, but I haven't really found it to be very successful for me.
Jenny (19:22)
Yeah, I actually love that you're saying that because I think sometimes people have these ideas of what they want to do with their business. Like you started out with a CSA, but then if you find that it's work that you're not enjoying, or it's just not working, or it feels like there's a lot of friction there, it's OK to let that go and do something else. Yes.
Dee Hall Goodwim (19:42)
Yeah, it's okay to shift. Yeah, shifting directions
is okay and it's normal. You you go to a business and they'll say, well, we don't carry that anymore. We don't do that anymore. It doesn't make sense. Like how many times, and also it's demoralizing if you keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, you know, and you're expecting these like new results and these big results and it doesn't happen. And in fact, Lenny Larkin,
famously has talked about how much he dislikes CSAs. And I don't know, I read one of her emails and one day clicked, like, you know, I don't actually have to. I don't have to do this. I'm not enjoyable. The numbers were dwindling over the years and the most dedicated CSA customers were going to be my customers regardless and buy from me in other ways and often larger amounts for bigger events.
And I would rather that than the kind of nickel and diming of CSAs.
Jenny (20:41)
Yeah, so it's different for everybody. And I love that every business is different. I love my CSA, and it works great for me. But for other people, it just isn't worth it, or they don't want to do it. And that's totally fine. And this is why I love business, and especially flower farming, because every
Dee Hall Goodwim (20:44)
Yes.
Jenny (21:03)
business as as unique as the person that runs it. And it's so fascinating to hear everybody's experiences and stories. I think there's something that to learn from all of this. So that's really cool. So I love the idea of your workshop subscription. Like that's so cool. Like just hearing that makes me like kind of want to sign up for it. like, ⁓ I want to like see what Dee's farm is all about and go to all the different workshops throughout the season. Like that's so cool. So in order to make those events,
Dee Hall Goodwim (21:14)
Right.
Jenny (21:33)
and those workshops happen. I know, I feel like I want to go back to the farming on these different plots of land for a little bit before we jump off into other things, because I have a lot of questions about it and I don't want to forget about them. So how does the logistics of farming on other people's plots of lands work for you? you just borrow it? Do you rent it or lease it? Do you have agreements with these other landowners? How does that work? Is it different for everybody?
Dee Hall Goodwim (21:45)
Okay.
Jenny (22:03)
or not.
Dee Hall Goodwim (22:04)
It's different
for everybody. It's all borrowed, I will say that. It's different for everybody. Because I want to be eligible for USDA grants, I do have a technical lease with everybody. But I mean, it's very loose. They know and we know that it's like, and I know that it's a handshake agreement that, you know, we can terminate at any time. often,
people who buy flowers or who are interested in these kinds of things are flower people and gardening people to begin with. And I haven't really run up against, knock on wood, any kind of resistance or anything that would make me change this model. I should also say that I'm from New York. I'm from Brooklyn. So I definitely grew up seeing urban gardening and community gardening and having this sense of, you know,
Jenny (22:37)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Hall Goodwim (22:59)
being able to do it, to share what you have, et cetera. So it's also not a concept that's foreign for me. I grew up my entire childhood seeing it and doing it as well. And so I think that was part of why for me it didn't seem like this terribly strange idea that I could farm in people's backyards and the USDA is like, yeah, it's fine as long as you have, just show us something in writing that they've signed saying this is okay.
You can go ahead and apply for X, and Z. So yeah, it's been great. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny (23:32)
Cool. That's awesome. I
know I actually recently interviewed Jennifer from the Flowering Farmhouse. I don't know if you know her, but she's in Washington, I think. And she had this lease land that she suddenly lost overnight. Yeah. And it was like.
Dee Hall Goodwim (23:40)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes, that was next to her house. Yeah. And she had that field
with it was really heartbreaking. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny (23:56)
Yeah. And so
I'm always like, I feel like I could have like super easily have like what you have a handshake agreement with like our neighbors. It's like we've talked to our neighbors about possibly leasing land from them someday if we needed to or borrowing land or whatever. And we're surrounded by a bunch of other farmers where I am. And so like I would be really comfortable with that sort of like handshake agreement thing. But then it seems like there's other situations where you might need to
Dee Hall Goodwim (24:14)
Mm-hmm.
Formalize something. Yeah, I've definitely heard of yeah heard, you know of things going Left when people you know, there were assumptions or that kind of yeah. So yeah
Jenny (24:26)
have something more than that. so I feel like this
I just think it's another great example of how every business and every person is different and can find success in whatever they're doing. You just make it work in your own unique situation, right? Yeah, I love that. So if there were other flower farmers out there that
Dee Hall Goodwim (24:49)
Yeah, for sure.
Jenny (24:58)
We're kind of a situation like you where they just had their backyard or their front yard in your case, and we're sort of outgrowing that. What are some tips that you could give them for going out and finding land to borrow or to lease, besides just sort of like asking people around? Like, what certain things do you think that they should be looking for?
Dee Hall Goodwim (25:08)
it
So I tried my county extension first. I should say that that was one of the first things I did. And the extension agent was kind of like, cool, I love every nag, but didn't have any advice or there were no plots to be found or anything that he could kind of find because you know, that's the first they always tell you, you know, turn to the county extension and see what they might have to offer. So that would be like my first recommendation. I would also suggest.
Jenny (25:21)
Okay.
Dee Hall Goodwim (25:46)
reaching out to farmers in your community, if you know any, reaching out to Master Gardener or Master Naturalist organizations. We know that there is so much land and there are aging farmers who would like their land to stay farmland, et cetera. Just kind of use your network, whatever that is, whatever that looks like, to try to figure it out. There is also a new website that I found out about last year
that matches people looking for space to garden with people who have space. I cannot remember the name of the website right now. But when I looked in my area, there wasn't a whole lot. I don't think it's very big yet, but that would be a cool thing to do if you could find it. I just don't remember it at all, but those are some things I would suggest. Also consider, you know, collective work. If you have...
other growers in your area who may be, you know, flower farmers who may be looking to share space or, you know, have people come on and help in exchange for space. You know, you just got to get creative and do the best you can with what you've got.
Jenny (27:01)
Yes. Be creative and do the best you can with what you got. Cause that's what we all do. And D, I think that a lot of states have.
Dee Hall Goodwim (27:06)
Yeah.
Jenny (27:11)
A similar program to what you're talking about where they can help match farmers or gardeners with people who are looking for people that want to lease land. I know New York used to have one. I think it was called New York land lease or land finder or something like that. if anybody is looking for something like that, think a Google search would be really good for people to find something like that in their state. So yeah.
Dee Hall Goodwim (27:19)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Jenny (27:38)
I love you keep bringing up this sense of like community and it sounds like you have been able to build this really successful business within your community and because of community. And I think that having your local flower farm probably adds a ton of value to your community. Like, do you feel like your business has brought a lot to your community and your community really appreciates that?
Dee Hall Goodwim (28:02)
Yeah, so on Saturday I had my flower truck out and so many people, I tell my husband, so many people stopped to talk. And it's like when you go to market, you know, there are so many people that you don't know. So like I was saying, I, you know, I left the house where I originally started the garden and a package was mistakenly sent there. And I went and I met the owner and she's like, are you Dee? I've heard all about you. People still walk by and talk about your garden, et cetera. you know,
There's just so much to be found. people love flowers. Everybody has floral memories. I mean, there's not really a downside to this, right? You're bringing beauty into the world. You're cultivating things. You're doing something that has environmental benefit. There's no real downside. I've loved getting to know
people more as a result. I'd like to say flowers have taken me to all kinds of places that I never expected they would and I mean I really love that.
Jenny (29:08)
That's great.
Really cool. think it's so, think having businesses like yours is just super valuable for different communities. They just add so much to it and really help foster different relationships and do, which is really important. So there's so many benefits from growing on a small scale like yours, like this micro urban farm that you have. but with all those benefits and this amazing community that you've built for your business, there's
Dee Hall Goodwim (29:26)
Thanks
Jenny (29:39)
There's
also challenges to growing on a small scale on different plots of land, right? So what are some of your biggest challenges that you face with this?
Dee Hall Goodwim (29:42)
For sure. Yes. Yes.
So
right now it's tulip time and I do have some tulips at home but the bulk of them are at another space and as we know when tulips are ready to cut they're ready to cut. You wait you know 12 hours and they may be blown and it's open and it's too late. So I'm at the point now where I'm going every day sometimes twice a day to check and see what needs you know pulling. I'm saying cutting but really I just pull them up by the bulb.
Jenny (30:05)
Yeah, hate tulip season.
Dee Hall Goodwim (30:17)
to see what needs to be pulled and put in the cooler. And so that can get a little bit tiresome or just sometimes remembering what I've got where and kind of checking. have to constantly go places to see, like when I was looking for hellebores, hellebores aren't ready here yet. I have to come back and keep checking. if everything was consolidated and in one space, it would be much easier to kind of
harvests, obviously, and make sure everything was prepared. One of the sites has water, but it's on the opposite side of where the plants are. So I have to drag in a hose and hand water when it needs, which is not very frequently because I...
I've kind of let what is most successful and does well without my interference do well there. Like apple mint, I have lots of mums there that don't need a lot of care. Shiso, which comes back like a monster on its own. Mountain mint. Yeah, if you grow, be prepared to have it forever if you grow it. It was actually, the seeds, the seeds blew and it was in the neighbors kind of in the cracks in their driveway and I was like, no. But it's a really good fall.
Jenny (31:21)
I've never grown that.
Alright, maybe I won't grow it.
Oops.
Dee Hall Goodwim (31:37)
Foliage, some have these like dark purple roughly leaves. It's really great for when the season is winding down to have something that color and size and also it has edible leaves because I love to tell people this is a flower or this is something I'm using for bouquet but you can also eat this if you wanted to. So yeah, that's one of the biggest challenges is just being everywhere at once and kind of, you know.
checking on things, doing the runs of going from place to place.
Jenny (32:08)
Yeah, that's got to be really hard and feel inefficient, but also rewarding in a lot of ways. You said before that there's certain things that grow better in certain plots. So that's a cool advantage that you have. But also running around everywhere has got to be really exhausting. Is your cooler, your flower cooler at your studio space that you share with the other creatives? OK. So that's your home base.
Dee Hall Goodwim (32:21)
Yeah.
Yes. Yep, it's at my studio. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. That's where I take everything back. And I actually need more cooler space. So I'm working on a grant to do that, to get more cooler space, maybe to have a cooler at home. I'm not sure. I'm like, let me get the grant first, and then I'll figure out where I'm going to put it afterwards. Yeah.
Jenny (32:54)
Yeah. Yeah, that
would be great. I know FSA or Farm Service Agency used to have a low interest loan for cooler space. I don't know if they still have it or not. But for anybody listening, that might be worth looking into if you also need a cooler.
Dee Hall Goodwim (33:05)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny (33:14)
Nice. Yeah, that's, that sounds like one of the biggest challenges, just like driving around and like being able to check on everything every day. So when you harvest, like in the mornings, you just kind of go from like plot to plot to plot and like get everything in your truck or your vehicle and then bring it all back to the studio.
Dee Hall Goodwim (33:33)
Yeah,
so I try to concentrate things. Like I have tulips at home and like I said, the bulk in one other spot. those are, that's like tulips. Ranunculus is just starting to butt up, you know, specialty narcissus. So I'm mainly going between home and that one other site into the studio because things that the other sites haven't started popping up yet, they're gonna come through later in the season. So I think kind of staggering the plantings too.
to where I don't necessarily have to go in the summertime. It's like full speed ahead, but in the early spring, it's kind of easier to control what I'm doing where.
Jenny (34:13)
Yeah, got it. So now I want to talk about your flower truck because you said that this is sort of like a new thing that you're adding and I'm curious why you decided to go the flower truck route.
Dee Hall Goodwim (34:23)
It is.
So I have done market in the past and I have not found market wildly successful. have to say I grew up, farmer's market, yeah. I grew up across the street in Brooklyn from one of the largest farmer's markets in the country. So my expectation of what a farmer's market is and what it should be is probably a little bit different from a lot of people. But I never found it necessarily took so much time to prep.
Jenny (34:38)
Like farmers markets. Yeah.
Dee Hall Goodwim (34:57)
because you know, you're spending a day harvesting. I make most of my bouquets in advance for market and then just do some on site. And my farmers market was actually across the street from my studio last year. And so I thought, oh, this will be great because I'll just take stuff in a wagon and carry it over, et cetera. you have the day of prep, the day of market, and then the day after you're pretty much physically spent and you can't do anything.
Jenny (35:10)
wow.
Dee Hall Goodwim (35:25)
And so for what market brought in, I just didn't find that it necessarily made sense for me to continue. And I had this idea of having a flower truck that I could pop up at specialty markets with, also it's, mine is tiny. I put it on the sidewalk on Saturday. That's how small it is. It's just a little bigger than a golf cart. It's basically a golf cart with a pickup truck bed. And so I could take that.
Jenny (35:32)
Mm-hmm.
Dee Hall Goodwim (35:56)
to specialty markets that I could probably do better at, along with hiring it out for events, baby showers, bridal showers, weddings, and whatever else. In fact, I had someone come up to me and say her husband does a little wellness thing for his employees, and she thought that might be great, having a flower truck there, making bouquets. So I was kind of turning over this idea.
few of my friends here have the Japanese K trucks that are really popular as flower trucks. Mine is actually maybe half the size of that. It's very small. Yeah. Yes. It fits 12 buckets though. One of the first things I did when I got it was put all the buckets in the bed to see what could fit. It can fit 12 buckets, which is not nothing. And I just thought the cuteness factor would really draw in crowds too.
Jenny (36:32)
That's great, though, because then you could fit it anywhere, right?
You
Dee Hall Goodwim (36:54)
And she had her first run on Saturday and it was really successful. did better than I'd done at any market last year, I think, maybe outside of like one. So I was like, okay, well, this is work working. People were just coming, you know, coming up to it because they just saw this thing from across the street or whatever. They didn't know what it was and they just wanted to see it or they were walking by and they decided to buy flowers because the weather was nice. ⁓ and I love that it's tiny. can pretty much go.
Jenny (37:02)
Woo! That's amazing.
Dee Hall Goodwim (37:23)
anywhere and I can kind of set the schedule. There are a couple of events I already have on the schedule. Like the zoo is doing an adult night and so I'm gonna be there with bouquets and I'm gonna do you know flower crowns etc. Maybe like festival type things. I just thought this is something that's cute and a good marketing tool right. It's gonna really attract people I hope continue to and so that's why I decided to do that. It took some time to find what I was looking for.
Because I knew I'd seen a similar one on tik-tok, but there aren't many It is an American company Cushman that makes these smaller trucksters is what mine is called and You know what happened to pop up on this guy's farm out in the middle of nowhere And yeah, so people kept coming up. They were like, where did you find this? How do you get one? Can you drive it? You know lots of questions lots of just
interest and I'm hoping that's going to continue to build as you know, we tool around town and it's electric too. So that's pretty cool. It goes only about 20 miles per hour, but it doesn't really need to drive anywhere. So
Jenny (38:36)
Yeah, so are you setting up your flower truck just outside of your studio, like when you did it on Saturday? Or did you go to an event? Yeah.
Dee Hall Goodwim (38:43)
Well, I'm going to go to events too. So
I'll occasionally have it on the studio studio. Like I'm thinking maybe for Mother's Day, I'll probably have it there or maybe pop up at one of my favorite coffee shops or brewery, but also to different events. Like there's a big garden event in April that I'm taking it to, and then I'm doing a festival in May and I'll be teaching there, but I'll also be vending with the truck.
Jenny (39:10)
There's a girl who used to have a flower truck here in my area and she actually recently moved somewhere else, which was kind of a bummer, but she had this beautiful little flower truck and she did events. And so I feel like that's really similar to what you're doing now. And I think she really used that flower truck at all these little events to sell her designs when she does weddings and stuff. And so I think that those two sales outlets go really well together.
Dee Hall Goodwim (39:33)
Yeah.
think so too.
It's a great way to introduce people to who you are, what your work is that they might not otherwise, they might not have stopped at, you know, a regular market table, farmers market, but seeing this little truck. also kind of noticed a lot of like younger people to like a lot of young women, they wanted to take pictures, you know, want to pose with it, etc. And I'm like, Yep, great. Tag it, you know, thanks. And so yeah, I'm hoping that that's
That's the main thing that I plan to do with it is to do various events.
Jenny (40:14)
Was it, do you think the cost of the truck is gonna be worth it with what you'll get on a return for the sales of your flowers? Cause you're selling these flowers, I'm assuming like retail and it's like, they're pretty high price point, right?
Dee Hall Goodwim (40:25)
Yeah.
I so. think, well, I'm hoping, knock on wood, by the end of year to have recouped the total cost, which was the truck. had a canopy frame built by a local welder at a canopy put on, and then I'm going to get it painted. I haven't done that yet. But because it was smaller, it's cheaper than a lot of the Japanese-style trucks, and also it's not street legal, so I don't have to, you know, insure it.
get titling, et cetera, I put it on a trailer and then take it wherever I need. So I don't have some of those costs and my city just got rid of the need for a special events license if you have a business license. So I don't even have to have a special events license to have it out now. So.
Jenny (40:59)
⁓
That's actually a really big thing to consider if somebody is looking into a flower truck, that might be a better way to go since you don't have to do the vehicle insurance and all that other stuff, a business or the vehicle registration. Like that's so annoying.
Dee Hall Goodwim (41:23)
Right.
Yeah, and I mean it advertises
itself, right? Especially once I paint, I think I was gonna paint it green, I'm thinking pink now, but I think, you know, once people see a little pink truck with a black and white striped on and going by, it's immediately eye catching. Like I said, it's self marketing.
Jenny (41:46)
love that. So when you are selling flowers off of your flower truck, do you just have buckets of stems and it's like people make their own bouquets or are you selling actual bunches and bouquets off the back of it?
Dee Hall Goodwim (41:57)
So Saturday was the first run and I had buckets of stems but I made the bouquets. I have two friends who have trucks locally and then one kind of scared me. She was like, people handle the stems and they get broken and blah, blah, blah. So I'm kind of a little bit worried about that. But also in my mind I was like, okay, grow sturdy stuff, right? Like let snaps grow, don't pinch the snap dragon, just let it grow into that one giant stalk, right? Grow sunflowers with big stems, et cetera.
I'm kind of adjusting for the kinds of things that I'm going to have on the truck as a result. And it's so small, often find that people get a little over, like they wanna do it themselves, but they can get overwhelmed with the idea of, and I find the same thing in workshops, I can't do it, can you do it for me or can you help me? And so having the stems available, what I did was just ask people, like, do you see one or two flowers that you like? And they would point one or two out and then,
Jenny (42:39)
Hmm.
Dee Hall Goodwim (42:55)
I would use that as a starting point to make a bouquet while they wait. So I'm just saying, you know, it's custom bouquets while you wait, basically, which is, you know, a fancy way of saying, I'm gonna make that for you.
Jenny (43:08)
I like that the custom vocays. Yeah, that's amazing. I love it. So I think, you know, a lot of the theme that I'm hearing from you as we've been having this conversation is that you're just making things work with what you got. And it sounds like you're constantly pivoting, which I think every business owner has to do every flower farmer has to do. But it's not really like talked about that much. But like when something's not working or you find that
Dee Hall Goodwim (43:10)
Right. Yeah.
Jenny (43:37)
that
you don't like a certain thing, or if the market changes, there's all these components to business that you're constantly pivoting and trying new things. And I just think that's a really cool perspective that I'm getting from you as we're having this conversation together.
Dee Hall Goodwim (43:53)
Yeah,
I definitely am not, I say I'm not married to any one aspect and often when we start out flower farming, we have an idea of what we're gonna do, right? For me, I was just so sure it was gonna be farmers markets and subscriptions. That was where, you know, in my head, that was what flower farmers did and that's what I was gonna do. And I found that neither one of those worked really well for me.
And I enjoyed teaching workshops. And I had a space to do that from. I have an incredible space to do that from and to work from. And I really like doing corporate events, especially in doing small weddings and having the flower truck. And so I have been flexible. think it really requires flexible. think farming in general requires a lot of flexibility because there are a lot of things
You can plan all you want, but things are inevitably going to go wrong. so I think kind of just having that mindset of remaining open and flexible is really useful for what we do.
Jenny (45:05)
Yeah, I agree. 1000 % you have to be flexible with your vision and execution if you're going to do this. Totally. So Dee, are there any other exciting projects that you've been working on lately besides your new flower truck venture?
Dee Hall Goodwim (45:22)
not that I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of like, that's the main thing. That was my, my baby all winter and I couldn't wait to have it, you know, all dolled up and, and I would see people, every time I would go out, people ask me how's Sprout, which is the name of the truck. It's so funny how many people have, have asked me that question. Like it's my actual baby or like my, you know, my puppy or something. And, so no, that's, that's the main thing this year, ⁓ doing events and kind of
Jenny (45:38)
that's so cute.
Dee Hall Goodwim (45:52)
getting her, you know, there are some things I wanted to do, but I'm like, she needs to make a little money and kind of pay for it. She's got to pay her way before we start, you know, going too far down that road. But yeah, that's the main thing right now, besides my workshop series.
Jenny (46:07)
Yeah.
Cool. That's awesome to hear. But you've also been fostering a lot of community within the blackflower farming community as well. You've been doing that too, right?
Dee Hall Goodwim (46:19)
Yeah, so I started Black Flower Farmers back in 2021 to have a space where there's over 50 of us now. I really need to update the website. Black Flower Farmers around the world could have a space where they could commune, where I could say, hey guys, there's this grant going on. We ask growing questions, just all sorts of things. We have people who are experts, everything from
a Rosarian to an entomologist, know, people who have zero years of experience to people who have 30 years of experience. It's a really eclectic group of growers, mostly from the US, but they're also growers in Canada and South Africa and in the UK. And, you know, I think one thing that doesn't get talked about a lot, and part of why I ended up having my model this specific way is what
what can be a high cost of entry to flower farming, right? Especially having land access historically. People of color and black people have had less land access. so having people to talk to about these barriers and how to remove them or how to lessen them has been really important, whether it's finding out.
the ASCFG has professional development scholarships. Yes, they do. That's the thing they have now and regularly offer for people to attend conferences and other events to us fundraising and helping flower farmers in need. Like we had one who was in Asheville and was affected by the storms in North Carolina. so we got to send her direct aid. I think it's been a really important space to have.
Glad to be in the company of so many cool people. I just gave a talk last month in Atlanta at the South Conference with some other growers that are based in North Carolina, the Cottons, and we were invited down by a grower that's in Atlanta. And then there were some other flower farmers from Virginia that I knew that came down. And it's really great to be able to have what is a safe space to talk about issues that might be
affecting us directly more than they might be affecting other flower farmers.
Jenny (48:41)
I think it's so important to foster a community, you know, just within this industry, within all industries where you can really feel supported and like talk to other people who are going through the same things that you are. Cause I think it can be so isolating, especially like, like flower farming is such like a weird thing to get into.
Dee Hall Goodwim (48:58)
Definitely. Farming, yeah, yeah, it's a very small
industry and farming even, like I say, it can often be a very solitary experience and having other people to talk to about that who are not gonna be sick of hearing about it like your family is, there's, you know, kind of no substitute for that.
Jenny (49:22)
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you're doing that and have that kind of support and everything. So Dee, is there anything else that you would like to share with us about that or about your journey, about microfarming, urban farming, or anything like that before we wrap up today?
Dee Hall Goodwim (49:41)
know if there's anything additional I can share beyond, you know, creativity and flexibility being some of your most important tools for farming and for design work and just kind of how you go about looking for things. I tell my husband it's not a problem unless I can't solve it. Just looking for creative solutions to whatever your problems might be and
not thinking that you can't do it. You can, you might not be able to do it on the same scale that somebody else is doing it, or at least not at first. I mean, I started out with my 12 little market bouquets, and now I have a little truck with 12 buckets full of flowers, or doing events with whatever 20 centerpieces and this and that. But I also think...
getting started is the most important step. Sometimes we can be paralyzed. There's so much information. There's so much to learn. You know, I tell people I make mistakes all the time and the professional name we have for that is compost. Cause I've killed more plants than anybody else has ever. Like that's one thing. farmers have killed more things than most people are ever going to kill alive, right? Keep alive. And I am not on a high horse. People, you know, when people talk to you and they hear what you do and they're like,
Jenny (50:51)
Hahaha
Dee Hall Goodwim (50:59)
can't keep things alive, I can't. I'm like, trust me, I kill stuff all the time. I know a million ways a seed can die before it emerges from the soil. That's probably what file farming has taught me most about all the various diseases that exist. But just go for it, just take the leap. It doesn't have to be big. You can start on whatever scale, do whatever is comfortable for you. Yes.
Jenny (51:08)
Hahaha!
in your front yard.
Dee Hall Goodwim (51:28)
literally in your front
yard and then you you call it a business and people start coming to you for things and you're like, wow, I really gotta get going now. You know and yeah, that's about it.
Jenny (51:42)
Awesome. Well, I have loved talking with you today, Deeg. Just tell everyone where they can find more about you, your website or your Instagram or whatever you want people to go to.
Dee Hall Goodwim (51:52)
⁓ mermaidcityflowers.com
and I'm at mermaid city flowers across all socials. Sprout has her own page on Instagram, Sprout the mini truck. think there's not a whole lot there, but, ⁓ people really like seeing the process of what's going on there, but that's, that's where you can find me. And I'm always on Instagram. So you can always give me a shout there.
Jenny (52:14)
Awesome. Well, thank you Dee so much for being here and talking. This was such a fun conversation for us to have and I will see everyone next time on the next episode of the Six Figure Flower Farming Podcast. Bye.
Jenny (52:29)
Hey, one last thing before you go, I have a super quick favor to ask.
If you haven't yet, could you please leave the six figure flower farming podcast a review on Apple or Spotify? If you've gotten any value or insight out of this podcast at all, it would seriously mean the world to me and to your fellow flower farmers because those reviews help them find the valuable information they need to build their profitable and sustainable flower farm businesses. So please just take less than 30 seconds. It literally takes no time at all to just
go ahead and leave a review now and I will be forever grateful. Thank you so much in advance and I'll see you next time.
