Jenny (00:29)
Are you one of those people that thinks that earning six figures from a small scale flower farm is actually impossible? Well, think again. Jennifer Couvant did just that after taking the six figure flower farming business workshop with me. And in this episode, I chat with Jennifer all about the skills she learned, how she implemented them, and decisions that she made to close in on that elusive six figure a year mark this year.
Together with her husband Hans Lee, Jennifer runs Six Dutchess Farm in New York State where they grow beautiful flowers year round and they have the cutest herd of sheep you will ever see. Like seriously, go follow them on Instagram because they have the most adorable pictures of their sheep. But anyhow, Jennifer is honestly one of my favorite flower farming friends I've met through teaching six figure flower farming because she's just so inspirational.
authentic and real. And in this episode, she dropped some serious knowledge bombs that you don't want to miss. So let's dive in so you can meet Jennifer.
Jenny (01:32)
welcome, Jennifer. I'm so excited to have you. And I am just so impressed by you. And I've been wanting to tell you that because I feel like I have so many students and they're all wonderful. But there's always a few gems that stick out. And you're one of them who takes what you learn and you put it into action. And it's just been super fun to see you grow and everything.
Jennifer Kouvant (01:49)
so kind.
Jenny (01:57)
Thanks for coming on the show. Can you just tell everyone like a little bit about you and your farm and what you do?
Jennifer Kouvant (02:03)
Absolutely, but first I want to thank you for your very kind words. Your course was, you and the course were such an inspiration to me and they came into my life at the exact time that I needed them most. So I am incredibly grateful and actually love listening to your podcast all the time when I'm harvesting or weeding, which is so, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
Jenny (02:23)
Thanks. Yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (02:27)
And so about my farm, so I run Six Lutches Farm together with my husband Hans and we are a small diversified cut flower.
and fiber farm, though it's heavily skewed towards cut flowers at this point. And we're located in the Hudson Valley in Southern Dutchess County. It's about 70 miles from New York City. We're a 12 acre farm. We farm, we grow on about two acres, but because we don't have a lot of flat land here, all of the growing spaces are spread out everywhere on those 12 acres. So whatever we can find that's flat, we'll grow something there.
and then the sheep have what's in between. But let's see. So that's a little bit about our farm. We used to be a horse farm. before I met my husband, Hans, he had this farm and it was a horse farm. It boarded horses on these 12 acres and it did so for about 10 years until we decided it was time to make a change. There was a lot of wear and tear in the land. I also happen to be very allergic to horses that have started.
Jenny (03:29)
no!
Jennifer Kouvant (03:33)
But one by one, the horse boarders left or started their own farms and Hans's beloved horse, Magic, passed away at a ripe old age. And we knew that was a sign that it was time to shake it up and kind of explore a new kind of farming. So that's our farm.
Jenny (03:49)
Awesome. And so what kind of sales outlets are you selling through? I know you do farmers markets. That's like your big one, right?
Jennifer Kouvant (03:54)
Yeah, it really is. And that's also one, you know, why your course resonated with me so much because you do markets and you gave so much wisdom on the path of being a market farmer with a lot of positivity, because I know some folks can be a little down flower farmers on farmers markets. So I loved all that positivity. And we really went with it full force this year. We started with one market last year.
And then this year we started doing on and off three markets all year round. So we really, really scaled up on the farmers markets. It very much suits our personalities. We love the people contact. We love being ambassadors for small farms so we can chat all day about farms and flowers and sheep. So we do markets that's that has become the by far the largest part of our revenue is through farmers markets. We also on the flower side we do.
Wholesale, we do a small CSA. As the farmer's markets have grown, all the other enterprises have shrunk a little bit. So I would say wholesale is next with a little bit of retail, CSA, and we did a lot of Zoom events during COVID and we're slowly transitioning to on -farm events. So that's on the flower side. Then we do, even though our flock is very small, and honestly, we'll never do more than break even with our sheep.
and pay for their expense. We still have a fiber production program here because we dearly love our Gotland sheep and we feel it's important to share everything about small flocks and breed -specific yarn. So we do that as a labor of love and we also have a farm apiary where we produce honey, which is another enterprise we have here. And those kind of components make up what we do here on the farm.
Jenny (05:46)
Awesome. I love seeing pictures of your sheep. I grew up with livestock and working on all kinds of livestock farms. And actually, I don't know if you knew this, I was, when I worked for the government, I worked for USDA and I was in charge of this sheep scrapie program. And I hated it because I hated going to tell all these like little farmers, I'm like.
Jennifer Kouvant (06:10)
imagine.
Jenny (06:10)
We have to test your dead sheep's brain. Okay. For people who are listening, people are probably like, what the actual heck are these people talking about? tangent, but there is this disease and sheep it's called Screepy Disease. And there's like this national program to monitor it. And, and I just like hated doing it. I loved the animals. I love the sheep. I love the farmers, but I hated like the government bureaucracies and like, you know, all that stuff. So anyways.
Jennifer Kouvant (06:39)
Yeah, I.
Jenny (06:39)
I'm partial to sheep too.
Jennifer Kouvant (06:42)
They're such beautiful creatures. They're such beautiful animals, so soulful. you know, even though our flock is shrinking a bit as our sheep age out because we don't breed them, you know, it's just they add such a wonderful element here. And we, so we'll keep them until the very end. So we really treasure them. But yeah, it's hard not to like sheep. They're just, you know, they're really beautiful souls and very fluffy.
Jenny (06:59)
No. That's awesome.
Yes. And we have our own beef cows here at my farm, and they're definitely just a hobby for us. We don't even try to make money off of them. It's not even a real business. mean, maybe it could be in the future, but right now, they're just fun to have around. But for the most part, we'll talk about flowers today.
Jennifer Kouvant (07:28)
Yeah, definitely. you know that really in our farming journey, because all small farms, I feel like you try a lot of things out. And at one point, we actually thought we'll be a real fiber farm. We'll have a big flock, we'll breed them, you know, we'll do all sorts of things with their yarn and...
But then you realize maybe that's not the best fit. It's not going to be as lucrative as you thought. It's not going to pay your bills, as much as something else may be. So it was really interesting for us to go down that road. And at one point, we really had to make a decision. We had limited land, 12 acres isn't a ton. Are we going to do sheep and grazing and give them all this beautiful land, or are we going to grow flowers?
And so that was really a big, big decision. And I think a couple, about two years ago, we really said, okay, we're going to go the cut flower path. And that's, that's that we have to choose and, no regrets.
Jenny (08:20)
And here you are. Yeah. So how has your cut flower season been going?
Jennifer Kouvant (08:26)
It's been going great. It's really been going great. A few surprises this year. First of all, as you know, the weather has been bonkers. It's been so crazy. These early, early heat waves that we had really, you know, threw everyone for a loop and really taxed out, I think, a lot of the young flowers and plants a great deal. But it's been going great. We we've continued with our markets. We
of tried as much as we could to stay focused on growing the things we were committed to growing and kind of having those blinders and not getting distracted by all the know internet noise and all the things everybody else is growing. We really had an idea of what we wanted to do and we stuck to it and it's been it's been really great. Interestingly enough, usually summers at markets are really low. Business is lower, a lot of people are traveling. This year
Jenny (09:04)
you
Jennifer Kouvant (09:23)
It's really been our best season, which I'm really floored by. It's not what I expected, but it has become hands down our most profitable quarter at market to date from, so that's great. And that's all due to the Lizzy Anthus, I have to confess. So I give the flowers all the credit, but we invest a lot of time and we choose our flowers really carefully. it's just, it's done really well for us. And we just had, you know, we,
Jenny (09:38)
Hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (09:52)
Being new at some of these markets, it's taken us some time to build up our customer base too. So we can finally see our regulars coming back again and again. First that we have regulars and then we can really see they've stuck with us through three seasons now. So that's really, really nice to see. So it's been great. We did lose one sheep. I know we said we talk about flowers, but we did lose sheep, our matriarch, which is very sad. Very fine, she waited until we finished our weekend markets and then she.
Jenny (10:12)
that's hard.
Jennifer Kouvant (10:20)
She, know, poor soul, she was an older you, but that was a big loss and sad for us. But on the flower front, yeah, it's been really great. Some new opportunities have come up that we were not expecting, which are all good things to maybe explore next year. So it's been great. We owe you a lot of the thanks for that, Jenny, but it's been really wonderful.
Jenny (10:27)
I'm sorry.
Great. what I, before we, I have so many things that I want to talk to you about today. I don't even know what to go into next, but so when you came to me, so I think the first, were you in the online course this past winter?
Jennifer Kouvant (11:02)
I was. So I rallied up my best flower farming friend, Kinga. Yes, this was great. We did. We did the on -farm workshop. We had someone else we knew well, too, who came, and we made some great new friends there. So we did the on -farm workshop. It was very hard to get away in August, but we did. And we didn't regret it for a second. And then we all signed up for the online course.
Jenny (11:08)
Yes, I love Kinga. Yeah, but you guys came to the On Farm workshop two summers ago. Yes.
Jennifer Kouvant (11:29)
but full confession, we were doing winter tulips at the time and it was really a busy season. I hope I can take it again next year where I can be a little more dedicated and focused. Cause I still have some stuff I need to focus on a little more from that wonderful course.
Jenny (11:33)
You're busy. Yeah, I want to talk about that with you too.
yeah.
Well, that's why I loved making it into an online course because you can just revisit it every single winter. And there's always like new levels to everything. Like, you know, I know for me, like I have to sit down every winter and I like learn new stuff about marketing, even though I've been like doing it for a while, there's always new things to learn and always new things to revisit and like work on. so I love that it's.
also online now, so you could just retake it every year. But anyways, yeah, that workshop on the farm that you guys were at was so much fun and I loved it. And so I'm just so glad that you also loved it. Actually, do you mind if I read recently you like comments or it was like sometime this summer, you made a comment on Instagram about the course and I'm just going to read it real quick because I've made me so happy to hear, but
Jennifer Kouvant (12:42)
please do. I don't remember what I wrote, but now I want to hear it again.
Jenny (12:48)
You said on July 11th, this was the best farm workshop ever and truly the best investment since we ended up using all the knowledge you shared with us to get a USDA grant. Plus, we have already exceeded our income from last year after only six months. I would say the ROI or return on investment was beyond what I can calculate. So, so, so worth it. I hope you keep offering it so other flower farmers can benefit as much as we did.
And so thank you for saying that. made me feel so good.
Jennifer Kouvant (13:18)
You're welcome, but I meant every word. In fact, it's funny your timing because we just got notification a couple of days ago that USDA signed the contract because we had signed it a few months ago. We were waiting for them to sign it before we made any movements. So we just got the word. It is official. Thanks to you. You gave us so much guidance on the physical.
process of actually applying for a tunnel grant. And by the way, Kinga got one too after your course. we both got, we both got, we both had a lot of success with that. then on the, yeah, income side, you know, I have to say we are just probably a month away from meeting our six figure farm goals. So I, yeah, it's.
Jenny (13:49)
She did, yay! Yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (14:10)
beyond beyond. So it's it's really it means a lot to us and we worked really hard to get there and we're thrilled.
Jenny (14:20)
Man, we should have waited a month until you hit that number. But we might have to rerecord this. Yes, honestly, you should. We should 100%. I mean, even if you don't hit it in a month, when that happens, I know it's going to happen for you, we have to celebrate. And I think that's a big piece that people kind of leave out sometimes. When you hit little goals and big ones, you have
Jennifer Kouvant (14:23)
I know you're gonna party, got out the champagne.
Jenny (14:47)
have to recognize it and celebrate. Like go get a bottle of champagne, go out to dinner, like do whatever, you know, go party with the sheep. You know, I don't know.
Jennifer Kouvant (14:55)
Yeah, for sure we will. We'll have them over for cocktails. it was a real milestone for us because my husband Hans and I, really wanted to farm in a sustainable and viable way. And we wanted to know that as we turn this, as we kind of invested in a new kind of farming for us,
which had lot of uncertainties that we could really just with like mostly two people working here and a farmhand this summer that we could make it profitable and reach some of those goals. So now that hopefully we'll reach that one next year, hopefully we can double it. once you set goals for yourself, the sky's the limit. You keep going with it. And I think that's the way you
Jenny (15:41)
Yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (15:49)
you should approach it, that you can most definitely reach your goals as long as you plans on how to do that, really concrete, and make those commitments to yourself. So I think those were, in order for us to do that, it was really important to identify, okay, so if this is our goal, how are we gonna do it? What are we gonna focus on? What months are we gonna focus on it? What are the numbers attached to that? So I think a lot of this last year has been doing
Jenny (15:58)
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (16:16)
that kind of work, really breaking it down into pieces and seeing how our year would look like.
Jenny (16:21)
Yes, I love what you said about having a concrete plan to achieve your goal because essentially I feel like that's kind of what, not kind of, that is what I'm teaching through Six Figure Flower Farming through the online course now is really taking somebody and bringing them through the process of making a concrete plan from everything from deciding what you're going to focus on, finding your most profitable items.
figuring out where you're gonna put your energy, what's really moving the needle to like a marketing plan, like all that stuff. You have a concrete plan laid out for you to follow and it's so hard sometimes to do that on your own. And also I think a lot of people look at successful flower farmers or just successful people in general and they have this assumption that...
that they were lucky or they had some special advantage or, you know, an unfair advantage or something like that. But the truth is like people like you and me are just regular people. And we just sat down, like made a plan, worked at it, you know, step by step. And then if things didn't go right, you know, we pivoted like you and your sheep, you know, that didn't turn out to be something that you ended up wanting to pursue. And so you pivoted to flowers and now you're really focused on certain flowers. And so I just love that you said that.
It's, know, as long as you have that concrete plan, you can really achieve your goals.
Jennifer Kouvant (17:45)
Yeah. That was really important to us. And there were a couple of things that I really gleaned from our time together. And one of them.
which we really followed, which we really followed this year and tried not to get distracted, was to not do too many things
Jenny (18:09)
Hey, I'm interrupting this conversation really quick to ask you an important question. Have you been struggling this season to get your business as profitable as you want it to be? Or maybe you've been struggling just to get more customers and get your farm business off the ground. If that's the case, listen up. It's time to take your flower business to the next level. Most small scale flower farms fail simply because they don't generate enough customers with their marketing strategies. But I'm here to put an end to that.
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It's going to cover what is working now for hyper local flower farm businesses because it's different than all these giant online businesses out there. And the number one tool to get your customers coming back for more week after week. So you can enjoy steady cashflow throughout the season. And we're going to do all of this without spending all day on social media, wondering how the hell to get more customers and without feeling scared or afraid of selling or putting yourself out there. And I'll teach you how to do that.
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There will also be a live Q &A session at the end where you can ask me literally anything you want. I will be an open book and I can't wait to answer all of your questions. So sign up now for this free marketing masterclass by heading to trademarkfarmer.com forward slash masterclass or click the link in the show notes of this episode. Again, that's trademarkfarmer.com forward slash masterclass. Okay, now back to our originally scheduled conversation.
Jennifer Kouvant (20:31)
That was really important to us. And there were a couple of things that I really gleaned from our time together. And one of them.
which we really followed, which we really followed this year and tried not to get distracted, was to not do too many things
because as a diversified farm, that means that you are doing a diverse number of things. And we really started to look last year, or I did after August, and when we spent time together at your farm about, so how much time am I putting into this and is it worth it? Like how much?
Jenny (21:06)
Mm -hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (21:07)
Is this really, you know, how much profit are we getting? How much is this netting? Is it even paying for itself? And so I really, really had to be meticulous about doing that and let go of some things, you know, that I had in my mind I wanted to do, but I really couldn't justify doing it. And then kind of take a bit of gambling that we could go in a different direction and it would be more profitable. like CSA for us, as much as I love doing it,
It just, never put in the time really, it probably needed to develop it more. So that was one of the things, we didn't stop it, but we also didn't push it. And we kind of really knew that we loved interacting with people and we loved talking about small farms and sharing what we do and showing off the flowers. So we thought, wow, farmers markets, I think this would really be a good fit. So it was kind of playing around with that.
And as I said, letting go of certain things to make room for other things that we just felt might be, that might bring a steady income in for us every week and let us move a lot of flowers and also kind of meet our own personal needs and lifestyle and all of those things. So that's a lot of what we did. Farmers markets was kind of a gamble. Also, we just didn't know how it would be to like show up in winter every weekend in freezing weather.
Jenny (22:30)
Mmm, yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (22:30)
just physically, like, would anyone be there? Would we be able to sell anything? the flowers be able to make it? So just a lot of question marks. But farming is always a bit of gambling. You you try things and you to see.
Jenny (22:41)
100%. Yeah. I have actually my husband's boss who is also a farmer always says that farming is just one big gamble. Like you're just playing a game of gambling all the time, but no matter what business you start, you're gambling, right? You're like going into unknown, you're testing things, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't. And so it sounds like doing the winter markets.
And these winter tulips has worked out well for you. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and like maybe some of the challenges and if they're obviously it sounds like it's worth it. Tell us a little bit about that.
Jennifer Kouvant (23:19)
Yeah, so definitely. First of all, it's not for everyone. It really is something to think about really carefully. Prior to that...
You know how farming is, in season you work like nonstop. It's just, it's really mother nature doesn't take days off. So you're kind of at the mercy of what's going on, you know, what the needs are. And it can often mean seven days a week, extremely long hours if you don't have a staff or a lot of farm help.
So we always looked at it okay. It's okay because winter, we have the whole season to ourselves. You can decompress, you can kind of get all that rest you didn't get. So number one, winter farming was giving up that. But also I think it's probably the riskiest arm of farming to farm inside in winter because even though you're growing, in our case, we grew our winter tulips undercover inside a former animal shed, which we had insulated.
Jenny (24:07)
Mm -hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (24:19)
humidity and temperature are so critical that if you literally let it lapse for a few hours and your humidity gets too high, you could risk like all of your tulips toppling and like really lose your whole crop or a big part of it. It's very real and it happens. So, but I still felt I really, as a grower, I wanted to try, I really wanted to see how it is to grow in winter.
how it feels, like is it inspiring, is it sellable? And I chose a small enough amount that if we lost it all, it would be really awful, but it wouldn't completely break the bank. in other words, I think when you try something like that, don't put in more than you can probably afford to lose in case it fails and there's a likelihood it may. But anyway, it worked. It worked really well for us.
the way we got into our markets through the winter season. There are a lot of cut flower, fresh cut flowers available in winter. and there are not lot of farmers that want to show up every weekend in freezing weather outside. I wish we had one nearby, but we love our winter markets, but they do happen to be outside. you know, it is, they are shorter in that well.
Jenny (25:30)
Are all of your winter markets outdoors? Are there any inside?
Wow.
Jennifer Kouvant (25:44)
one of them shorter in hours, the other one's regular hours, the same hours all year. But yeah, so for me, it was just, I knew that in order to meet my goals, I needed to draw an income all year round, that I really couldn't afford to take a whole season off and just have income from fiber or classes. It wasn't enough that I really needed, and also just for my personal sense of security, I really need to see
income coming in weekly. Like I get really worried if I don't know if I'm going to have any income this week or next week or who's going to place an order. mean, love wholesale. I love all those things, but I really love the reliability of a farmer's market where I know each week I'm going to show up. I'm going to get to move a lot of product. Even on a bad day, I'll still have, we'll still have income and still move a lot of flowers. So I was, we were willing to take the risk and at least try it and see.
The winter tulips turned out a lot better than I thought. In terms of success, we only lost a couple of crates. So it was, it was, it did work out really well. But I will say we were like on 24 seven duty, like all, a baby cam. We were just all night long. We heard like the humidity alarms go off. I'll get up. I'd run out there. I would vent the space. I would, you know, check the dehumidifiers. So it was a real commitment.
So hopefully year two, we're definitely gonna do it again. I hope I've learned enough that I'll be more efficient in how I do it.
But it, yeah, it's a whole other element of farming. A lot of pressure, a lot of risk, but it can really pay off. Year one, know, because you're investing in equipment, very specific to winter growing, if you haven't done it, growing inside a lot of crates, a lot of pro mix, a lot of lights and all this, I think it could be hard for a small farm to break even with it. But once you have all that, next year.
Jenny (27:21)
That's a come.
Mm
Jennifer Kouvant (27:45)
I think you'll see your costs will go down a lot.
Jenny (27:47)
Yeah. Yeah. The initial cost to get into any new enterprise or sales outlet is always going to be a little bit more. But once you have that, all the stuff that you need, hopefully you can recoup your costs, which is important to recognize that if you want to start something new, if you just want to test it out and give it a try, something that you said earlier was just.
try a little bit at first to see if you're cut out for it or if you really like it or if it's going to work for you because you don't want to make these huge investments into things and then not work out the way you wanted to. you're just like, yeah, losing out. So.
Jennifer Kouvant (28:26)
Yeah, definitely recommend starting small, which we did. And yeah, just seeing if you like it. And also, you know, growing in crates inside, it...
As beautiful as the tulips were, there are different issues you're dealing with, that you really have to figure out how you can replicate mother nature inside, because the stem structure was a little different. It's just, it was a little different. So I think also just as a grower to understand what you're dealing with, to understand the flowers, to understand their growing needs inside.
in a season which is not their natural season to grow. I think it's, yeah, I'm always a big proponent of starting small and not putting in more again than you can afford to lose if you fail. And, you know, our failures are our greatest lessons and they happen often. yeah, I definitely always like to advise that and I follow that advice myself.
Jenny (29:16)
Mm -hmm. Yes.
Yeah. So do you think that doing these winter tulips has that really set you apart in your farmers markets and like, have you, feel like you've really found your place like within, within those markets because of this?
Jennifer Kouvant (29:35)
Yeah, I think it's really interesting at market. I've learned a lot this year. Last year we just had one market, a summer market. This year we've done year round markets. I think it's really important for flower farms to set themselves apart and to have things that are unique to them. And that is going to be completely different depending on the farmer.
I think like what you grow is an extension of you. I think how you present your stands are an extension of your taste and your authenticity. So I'm a really big believer in kind of not following the pack and figuring out what makes sense to you, what you love to grow, what you know you can sell, what you know can be profitable for you and really investing, you know, in how you want...
Jenny (30:19)
Mm.
Jennifer Kouvant (30:31)
your customers to perceive you and your product. So we really focus on a few things. And I really like to focus on a few things that I can grow really well. I don't want to grow everything. I don't want to be growing the same thing that my fellow vegetable farmer who also has flowers is growing because I'm never going to be able to match their lower price of their flowers because they can offset it with vegetables. So I know that as a flower only market farm,
Jenny (30:49)
Mm
Jennifer Kouvant (31:01)
Whatever I sell has to be unique. It has to be very compelling and it has to be different and it has to be eye catching. So that's what I found. winter tulips for us are great. You know, we only really have one winter grower at our markets, flower grower, sorry. And tulips are very amenable for indoor growing. You know, summertime for us a huge product is Lysianthus.
Spring, it's early summer, it's Campagnola, a few things that are just different. And yeah, so I really focus on things that I feel comfortable growing and that I know our market goers really love and that isn't like overrepresented or over saturated at our markets.
Jenny (31:33)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah. And that takes a lot of talent to do a lot of those flowers, like the Campanula and the Lysianthus. Those are flowers that takes a lot of skill to grow where most vegetable farmers who are selling like bunches of sunflowers and zinnias, like they're not going to take the time to learn how to grow those in most cases because they're focused on their veggies and the flowers is just like a extra thing for them. Right. And so you're...
Basically positioning yourself as the expert in flowers, because you have all these things that are so unique and that those customers have never seen before. And I feel like we do something really similar to what you're doing, where we grow different stuff that they can't get anywhere else. Or if they can get it in other places, like we have a really nice grocery store. We have Wegmans near us. Everyone loves Wegmans and they have a lot of these kinds of flowers, but the quality is nowhere near as good as ours. And so like.
just setting yourself apart any way that you can and making your own path, your own niche like you were saying. Even though you're just flowers, you can still have a niche within flowers. And not trying to do it all. I love that you said that because you can't grow everything and do it all well. At least that's what I think.
Jennifer Kouvant (33:02)
Yeah, well, that's exactly right. You we've tried things, we've tried growing a lot of different things and we've eliminated them pretty quickly. One based again on like what we can sell, I mean, and also just what takes up a lot of our time. So if something's gonna take up a lot of my time harvesting, I want it to be Lizzy Anthus.
Jenny (33:12)
Yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (33:25)
or dahlias or campagnola, which is time consuming to harvest because I feel pretty confident I can sell that at top dollar and it's going to make my customers really happy. They walk away with huge smiles and they're so excited to get flowers, which are so grand and beautiful and special. Whereas other things, which may be easier to grow and are very prolific on other farms, I just feel it would be a lot harder for me to sell them.
Again, there's a lot of competition and other people are going to out price me time and time again at market growing for us. be like Cosmos or even Zinnias because we've got a lot of other growers selling them at our markets. again, I'm high or sun even sunflowers for us. We don't grow in summer. Again, I try to look at what people are selling and I like to give them their space and their flower glory and say, you know what? You go with it. I'm not going to grow stuff. You are.
Jenny (33:59)
Mm
You
Jennifer Kouvant (34:23)
I'll do something totally different and this way we'll both make, you know, give customers what they want and nobody's going to be stepping on toes and duplicating each other. And I think it makes the markets better. I think it makes, I think it makes the farms feel better that they're offering something unique. And then I hope it's a win -win for everyone. And I feel the same way about pricing. You know, we struggle with other farms selling bouquets.
At prices we never could, $12, $15 for full bouquets. It's just not how we can price our flowers. If we did price that low, you know, we'd be offering a lot less stems. So again, you know, I think for a lot of flower farmers, you have to think, how do you counter that? How do you counter that at market? You know, the only way you can counter it is by offering something unique and totally different, something that people are going to be willing to pay more for because it's really truly.
Jenny (34:49)
Yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (35:14)
Spectacular or different or special, long lasting, don't know, whatever your adjective is, just something that is unique to you. So those are lot of things we've learned just in navigating our own markets.
Jenny (35:27)
Yeah, I think that
I agree with everything that you're saying because even at my market, we have another girl who sells flowers, but they are $6 mixed bunches, $6. But they are like wild flowers that she goes and picks like around her property. They're not like flowers that she has actually produced in any way. So it's a lot of like weeds and like wild flowers and
I feel very comfortable having her there because there is a market of people out there who just want the $6 bouquet. just want something small and whatever. It's not going to last more than a couple of days, but just something fun to buy, to put in their bathroom or gift to someone or whatever. As, whereas I am much more high end and have those different products and everything. And so I think that there is room for those people who maybe aren't quite doing things the same way as us. And so I think that's a great thing that you have learned. So what else?
Do you think that has really contributed to your success so far in terms of skills that you have learned and put into place or decisions you've made or anything else like that?
Jennifer Kouvant (36:41)
Well, I think, gosh, there have been many things. I think the things that have helped us a lot aside from, you know, setting clear goals and kind of really concrete goals, measurable goals, goals with numbers attached to all of that that we discussed already to kind of get where we wanted to get, it's also just things like having support systems in place. That's something like I feel when you start farming.
It can be so overwhelming. There's so much to learn. So much can go wrong. So it's really important to me, it has been important to me, to build my networks of fellow farmers that I feel are, that I can completely trust, share information with, and that we support each other. On the same note, investing in learning, your development as a grower is really, really important.
So, and also on the business side. So taking your course, also joining associations like the Association of Specialty -Cut Flower Growers, Slow Flowers Association. Those are organizations that I joined early on and I really have been grateful for that camaraderie and information to help me be a better grower. We did the Specialty -Cut Flower Growers mentorship. We were given mentors early on for two years.
Jenny (38:02)
Awesome.
Jennifer Kouvant (38:03)
They were amazing and we really, really valued that time. It really helped us shape up and think about what we wanted to accomplish as farmers. And I highly recommend things like that to, again, just so you're part of a community and you don't feel alone. And if you ever struggle with...
anything like imposter syndrome and all of that, which everyone does when they start out in a business, especially farming. I mean, these communities really, really help you feel the brother and sisterhood of other people doing the same thing you are facing the same challenges. so I think that's a big part of my process is finding that support system, you know, again, not being afraid to let things go.
that aren't working for you. And I think another thing that I learned a lot in the last few years is knowing your value and worth as a farmer and as a grower and putting yourself in situations where you're really valued, where you're paid on time, where your product is valued. And if you don't find that in a situation, you need to walk away. I don't put up with that nonsense anymore. I know how much time and effort.
Jenny (39:14)
Yes.
Jennifer Kouvant (39:24)
I put in, I know how much my fellow growers put in. so I really try to put myself in the places where I know my work and my product is really appreciated and valued and bring joy and happiness and value to people's lives. So that's something else I think that's really important.
Jenny (39:42)
Yes, I agree with all those things, especially the support system part of it. And I feel like that's one of my favorite parts of teaching the in -person workshop, six -figure flower farming and the online courses that I get to actually meet all of these different people like you. And then I make all these flower friends and
When you're first starting out and you don't know anyone, it can feel so isolating. But then if you just make like a couple of buddies when you just have like a bad day or you want to bounce an idea of somebody, like it's so valuable. And really the only way I think people can meet other flower farmers is by joining those associations like ASCFG or taking a course and really being proactive about like reaching out to people and keeping in touch with people.
Otherwise, I don't know how you would actually go meet other flower farmers. Yeah.
Jennifer Kouvant (40:38)
It is hard and farming can be so isolating sometimes. There's so much work and there's so much time in your fields. If you're not doing a market or something that's people related, you could be working solo for a long, time. And also when things go wrong, they go wrong really quickly. Things can just...
Jenny (40:41)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (41:02)
just spirals so, fast with this weather, crazy weather and wet weather or dry weather. And it just really helps to have that network and to be able to figure things out if something's going wrong or if something's going right to share that. So we've really loved that. Trying to think what other things that have been really important for us. know, again, just authenticity, being a great grower, really, really focusing on your craft.
Jenny (41:16)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (41:32)
know, what you grow, should really excel and you should understand you should really know very well, I feel very strongly about that, that your product should be the best you're capable of growing. And, you know, the last thing that is really, I think that I really, I think that's really important to me is realizing that
We are ambassadors for small farms for all the work we do and especially being at farmers markets. It's really important for me to realize that often we may be the only link people have with their farmers, with people that grow flowers, with the American cut flower movement and that it's really important that we don't just grow but we educate and spend time with people whether they buy or they don't buy.
you know, your time is going to impact their life and their view of the local small farm movement and buying domestic products. So I think like when I once I was once part of a or as a listener to a NOFA conference, it was before we did markets. And I remember a panel. This was during Covid. So it was all on Zoom. And I remember this panel discussion. It was all local farmers. And there was this one gentleman.
can't recall his name anymore, but he was a vegetable farmer and then I think they went over to like hemp farming. he did markets and he would say that he would talk to anyone or go to any event he was invited to to talk about farming because he knew that this is how small farms would survive, that he was an ambassador for this movement and growers and that
It was really a responsibility of his to share that with people and share his life, his product, and how important small farms are to our society. it always resonates with me. I always think about that. I think about it when I farm. I think about it when I sell at market. It's just something really important to think of the service side of what we do and the sharing and education of what we do in our future as farmers.
Jenny (43:49)
Yes. And so many people, vast majority of the public is so far removed from farming. They just have, they really have no clue, but so many people are interested in it when you teach them about it. And it's so important. If we want small scale flower farming to be a viable career for people in the future. it's not even just a viable career for people in the future, but to preserve farmland.
preserve open spaces, keep agriculture alive over the next decade and decades, whatever. We have to be talking to people about it and getting people interested in it and interested in what we're doing. The more people we can talk to about this stuff, the more it's going to spread in popularity and the more people are going to want to find farmers like you and me to come and support and buy from. And so it's just so important all around. I love that.
And it also is heartbreaking to me that so many people are so far removed from farming and agriculture, because I think very strongly that we all should be deeply connected to it because it's where our food comes from. like, it's just like, you need this to live. You need food to live. You eat three, four or five times a day. Like you should know some more farmers, but anyways, I could go on a whole tangent about that, but.
It's so important.
Jennifer Kouvant (45:18)
You get, Jenny, when you're at markets, how do your customers respond to that? Do you get lots of requests to visit your farm or people who want to connect more? Yeah.
Jenny (45:27)
yeah. Yes. Yeah. And the number one question that we're asked is, can I come to your farm? And so we used to do little workshops and farm tours and stuff all the time because we wanted people to see the farm and learn about it be connected to us. And it was such a great way for us to connect with our customers better and get to know them better and form deeper relationships with them. And it was super fun. We took a break for it for a couple of years. I had a baby.
Jennifer Kouvant (45:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny (45:57)
things life got crazy and now we are actually starting to open the farm up again for more farm tours and stuff because people want to learn, right? I mean, I'm sure you do get asked that all the time at the market.
Jennifer Kouvant (46:08)
Yeah, well, it's the number one question we get asked. yeah, because I'm also, I've been thinking a lot about how we can meet those needs and how we find the time to add another dimension and have on -farm events. But I think it's inevitable. I think it's the next step for us. In markets, you can bring the farm to people, but in essence, people also want to come to the farm itself.
Jenny (46:22)
Hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (46:34)
and see that. So yeah, that's something for next year for sure we're going to definitely explore and probably hire more help so that we can make that happen.
Jenny (46:43)
Yeah, and it doesn't have to be anything extravagant or luxurious. It can literally just be a farm tour, and they go home with a little bouquet. Or don't even send them home with a little bouquet. People literally just want to see it and learn a lot of the times. so I always encourage people not to, well, like we said before, start small, and then go from there. So I think it would be a great addition to what you're doing already.
and be really cool. So that'd be awesome.
Jennifer Kouvant (47:15)
I
Jenny (47:16)
let's get back to maybe some of the skills that you learned during six -figure flower farming and what they have done to help you grow your business and nearly reach this six -figure goal of yours.
Jennifer Kouvant (47:32)
you know, for us it was just really finding our fit, finding kind of what resonated with us, knowing our product really well, being able to work really hard, sacrificing our weekends, which, you know, as a kind of startup or a company growing, you have to make those kind of sacrifices. But I think those were, you know, those were probably a lot of the things we did.
Jenny (47:38)
Mm
So Jennifer, would you recommend other people to take six -figure flower farming?
Jennifer Kouvant (48:01)
Yes.
my goodness, absolutely. I wouldn't hesitate for a second. Yes, it had a, mean, literally it's funny, Jenny, was, when I first heard about your course, it was winter time and I was literally going over our numbers and thinking, how am I, you know, how can we?
make this a more, how can we make this a viable farm? How, you know, how can each year we would strive to double our income. And then we reached a point where I, I really didn't know how we could go, how we could go further. And then like this, your, had spoken at a, at on a zoom conference and I heard your presentation and I said, my goodness, I need to do that. And I had signed up and unbeknownst to me, my dear friend, as I mentioned before, Kinga had signed up without me knowing it at the same time.
So I knew it was destiny. So yeah, so we went together, drove up together, and yes, 100%, because all the things that I probably was lacking in knowing how to reach that goal, I got out of this workshop at your farm. Just really, really all these parts, which I was able to put together and think about, like think about your enterprises and what is profitable and cutting out things that aren't and letting go.
Jenny (49:01)
really?
Jennifer Kouvant (49:29)
of the idea of growing everything and focus on the things that you know you can do well or that's sellable. All those things that we mentioned before made such a huge difference to us because in fact that's what we did. And applying for grants, knowing that we needed to work for our situation that I felt comfortable working and having income because both my husband and I just work on the farm.
12 months out of the year to be a four season grower that I felt that was something we really needed to do to meet our goals, that I farmers markets were the right way to go. All of these are things that I picked up, yeah, from this wonderful workshop. So I would definitely, definitely recommend it. Plus the big grant, which is a game changer because now we have a 96 foot tunnel that we can build this fall and
do all of this amazing fall planting for an early spring. So I am beyond, beyond thrilled. And it probably would not have happened had I not, had I not come up in August or for that matter done the virtual course. I would have probably gotten the same information through either, through either channel, but definitely. And you know, I made the best friends there too. And I still get to talk to Ronna all the time from Fly Catter Farm in Great Barrington. she's.
I'm a really good friend and resource and yeah, and Brooke from Jenny Creek Farm. We get to share her good news and follow her journey all the time. So it's just the best people too. I highly, highly, highly recommend it.
Jenny (51:05)
awesome. That's honestly my favorite thing that I do. And I am just so happy to hear all the success stories that come out of it. It makes me feel like I really, truly am doing something purposeful with my life and my time. And so I just can't thank you enough for sharing that with me and for telling other people about it too. So thank you so much.
I just loved having you in the workshop and love being friends with you now. It's awesome.
Jennifer Kouvant (51:32)
you
I so appreciate it. Well, I...
I really appreciate the many, many gifts you give because to be an educator and to be a teacher and to spread your success and your very hard -earned knowledge and share so freely all the things that have made you successful and to have the confidence to share that with so many people, you know, takes a lot, takes a lot of courage and a lot of confidence in yourself. So I really, really, really appreciate what you do and what you share and how much
your gift to us has been part of what we've been able to accomplish here. So I'm very grateful to you, Jenny.
Jenny (52:14)
thank you so much. I need to come visit you sometime soon. I know I do. Yeah. I would love to. Traveling with a 16 -month -old has been challenging lately, so might need to wait a little while. But I'm going to get there soon. know.
Jennifer Kouvant (52:17)
You do, you do, you should. We're waiting.
No, I I can tell. We'll be here for the long haul. 10 years from now, we might not have the sheep anymore. We might not have the same flock anymore, but we'll be here.
Jenny (52:38)
Awesome. So, Jennifer, is there any last thoughts or anything else that you would want to share with an up and coming flower farmer like yourself or maybe somebody who's a year or two behind you or anything like that before we close out our little interview here?
Jennifer Kouvant (52:57)
Yeah, I would love to, you know, we've all been there. I've certainly been there. And I would just say, believe in yourself. You are meant to be exactly where you are doing what you're doing. You know, work hard, learn a lot. Please be true to who you are and turn off the constant Instagram of what everybody else is doing. And don't feel pressured to replicate.
Jenny (53:05)
Hmm.
Jennifer Kouvant (53:26)
just find your own farming voice, find what works for you, and go with it. Make good friends in the industry, keep looking forward, find the sales channels that resonate most with you and your personality and your lifestyle, whether you have kids, whether you don't have kids, what works for you.
And make sure to diversify to some extent. Don't put all your eggs in one sales basket. I probably didn't mention that, but it's really important. When we started a few years ago, we collaborated with the best bakery. I love that place so much. We sold so much through there and it was such a great collaboration. And then very suddenly they closed and I was like, my goodness, what do we do with all those flowers? I just, you know, I wasn't seasoned enough to know that you should always have many balls in the air when you sell.
Jenny (54:07)
GASP
Ugh.
Jennifer Kouvant (54:16)
you know, don't, don't rely on just one or two places. It takes time to build it up, but you know, find a few different sales channels and, and keep them going, keep your customers really, really happy and, just take pride in what you do. Spread your joy, spread your beauty and what you grow flowers are something that unites people all over the world. have customers of all colors, all religions, all parts of the world that all have the same.
happiness, same big eyes and joy when they see flowers and they all have stories about how it resonates with their childhood, their adulthood, their life, their families. So you get to do things that bring that kind of happiness and memory to people. So I just think, you know, any people that take on this challenge are really special people. And I just think go with it and spread that.
floral beauty everywhere you go and you will succeed.
Jenny (55:20)
Okay, if anyone was feeling even a little bit lackluster about flowers or flower farming, they are 100 % inspired pumping their fists in the air right now because of that.
Jennifer Kouvant (55:29)
Yes, I mean that wholeheartedly. I tell myself those things all the time and I really do believe them. I wish everybody success out there and highly recommend they take your fabulous course and find their way to six figures or more.
Jenny (55:45)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Jennifer. Can you tell everyone where they can find you or learn more about what you do, like your website and your Instagram or anything like that?
Jennifer Kouvant (55:53)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're at 6DuchessFarm .com. It's our website. Our Instagram handle is 6DuchessFarm. We're on Facebook, 6DuchessFarm. And so you can find us there. always feel free, you can reach out to me if you have any questions or anything I can help with, jennifer at 6Duchess .com. Note, not farm on that one. Jennifer at 6Duchess .com. yeah, and that's how you can find us. And we're at Beacon Farmer's Market every Sunday.
Jenny (56:09)
Hahaha
Jennifer Kouvant (56:22)
We're at Pauling Farmer's Market Sundays through the end of September. And then we go back to Cold Spring Farmer's Market every, I'm sorry, every Saturday, Pauling Cold Spring Sunday Beacon, and might be joining a few more markets next year. So exciting stuff.
Jenny (56:37)
Exciting. Awesome. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much again for joining me. And this was one of my favorite conversations. So hopefully we'll see you everyone next time on the Six Figure Flower Farming podcast.
Jenny (56:50)
One last thing, don't forget to sign up for the free marketing masterclass happening the first week of January. I'm teaching the three most effective ways to get more of the right customers without spending all day on social media. Sign up now at trademarkfarmer.com forward slash masterclass, or by clicking the link in this episode show notes. And you probably already know this, but I struggled so hard with marketing my business when I first started, which is why I'm doing this.
free masterclass training because I really want you to have the tools that you need to thrive. So sign up now at trademarkfarmer.com forward slash masterclass or click the link in this episode's show notes. I really hope I see you there.
